Portal talk:Football

League Table Copyright
Isn't the FA Premiership league table copyright of the FA??? Frankie Roberto


 * I did some research. See discussion here - looks like the data has to be licensed from the Football DataCo Ltd (11 Connaught Place, London W2 2ET). Unbelievable I know! Frankie Roberto 00:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think statistics can be copyrighted. see comment 26 on the link you provided. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 03:39, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the tag here, I don't think it is a good idea to list things like that on Portal pages.

As to the copyright thing, I'm not sure, but it may be down to being able to copyright the manner in which a collection of facts (or statistics) are presented. --Brian McNeil / talk 08:34, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've emailed jurwiki-l as to rather this is a copyvio or not. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 08:55, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm reading Copyright law of the United Kingdom, from the opening section I suspect we could be looking at some interpretation of "typographical arrangement of a published edition," plus there's a bit on copyright extending to databases. Where that might come into it is if you copy the FA's results, or maintain your own based on independent reports of the individual match results.  --Brian McNeil / talk 10:01, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Do we care about UK law? I thought it is the Foundations policy only to follow Florida and U.S. law. --Deprifry|+T+ 10:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The foundation may not have to worry about it, but I do wonder if it might impact UK-based contributors. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Some interesting articles:, related but not neccessarily relevant:


 * Boost for papers in football fixtures row - The Guardian, November 10, 2004
 * Publishers win football match - "a 'holdback period' proposed by Football DataCo ... would have meant reports and images coming from football matches were embargoed until two hours after the close of play"!!!
 * Lockout fear over football rights - BBC Sport, 26 October, 2004
 * Fanzine fight for the right to print fixtures - The Guardian, December 21, 2005

On balance, it seems like DataCo are more interested in protecting the 'copyright' of the fixture lists rather than the league tables - but there doesn't seem to be conclusive evidence either way. Frankie Roberto 12:19, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It has been established by Feist_v._Rural that information is not copyrightable and that only the collection of the aformentioned combined with some orginality may be copyrighted. So how you present the league tables, say the font size, the color of the columns etc. is copyrightable but not the actual data itself. (Of course I could be wrong as I'm no lawyer, that's just my interpretation.) --Deprifry|+T+ 10:10, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Found another Court case which is even more fitting. Quote from the comment: "In this case, the Second Circuit found that statistics from an NBA game are facts, and therefore are not subject to copyright law." Voila: The National Basketball Association v. Motorola, Inc.. --Deprifry|+T+ 12:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Does this conversation still require the communities attention? If not please remove the undefined tag. - Borofkin 01:35, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Layout
All that fuss aside, this portal is incredibly good looking. --Deprifry|+T+ 10:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, a really well done job. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Spum has done an amazing job with this. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 22:30, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I changed the line height on Wikinews Football portal because the letters coliding in to each other was driving me crazy. revert if you think it looked better before. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 21:35, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

What the...?
Well, firstly, you must know the fact that the results are public knowledge; any information you get from any of the football club's specific sites is free for people to know, because it's readily, and easily available knowledge. The wierd this is, i can't see why you would even think that match results would be copyrighted..

Let's analyse it;
 * Thierry Henry article i wrote was referenced.
 * Picture on the top logo and bg image is Fair use, and publicity information.
 * The rest of the information could be picked up from a dog anywhere within 10 miles of a football stadium.

Sorry to sound kind of sarcastic, but the FA have to publish the results so that other sites can use them, as they're the governing body. I don't really think they'd make many friends if they copyrighted fixtures and results, because then society really would have gone absolutely barking mad.

Spum 11:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm with you 100%, but unfortunately, 'absolutely barking mad' seems to describe the FA's approach to copyright quite accurately... :-( They even tried to sue fantasy league competitions for 'using their data'!! Frankie Roberto 12:23, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't worry, I don't think anyone disagrees with you that it would be "absolutely barking mad", I'll oppose any efforts to list this on the deletion request page until we get some feedback from the legal eagles. That may take a while, judging by what mentions I found of their mailing list. --Brian McNeil / talk 15:01, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * We could always try asking DataCo or the FA directly...?? Frankie Roberto 16:44, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * No, let the legal mavens look it over, we don't want to effectively ask them to send the foundation a bill. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:48, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * You may also want to see discussion of copyright of future fixtures at Portal_talk:Football/Fixtures Frankie Roberto 20:09, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Juriwiki-l people say the data is uncopyrightable, and is not a copy-vio. (however they added that it has to be manually updated, can't be a bot, and can't be an exact copy of the style of the way it was arranged) that is basicly what they said. I would post the email, but their was about seven warnings on the bottom that say not to repost this email, so I'm asking permission first. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 05:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Move to Portal:Football (soccer)
I'd like to move this to Portal:Football (soccer) (simply because it is confusing to see just 'Football' in a title; needs to be disambigued), but I don't want to screw anything up at the same time. I'll wait for a week to do this so that anything that needs to be prepared for the move can be adjusted so. --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 22:23, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Nothing will be screwed up. (templates will just be subpages of the old page) but I think you'll meet strong resistance from Spum. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 21:41, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

fixtures/ auto change
What I meant was to create a different template for each day. Then the template link would automaticly change. you can't link with fragment identifiers (#) - they're just be ignored.
 * for example use link:

Would look like you put this in on the 15.

Today it would be the same as:

Which would output:

If you want all for the month do Which produces:

You can also do everything for a year too, or a specific date.

The "/" is good because it will be like a virtual directory. When people browse it they could go back to all that month, all that year, or to the fixtures page or to the portal. It would also be more scalable and be easy to archive. However thats just one way of doing it. Bawolff ☺☻ 06:00, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * With the exception of subdirectories arn't enabled in the portal namespace. :( Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 06:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for this info, i was having alot of trouble, because i was using 05 (ie) as the date instead of 5 (when making the page) and they would not link. I figured out the problem now, and changed all the recent days i did. It currently goes up to March 5th, 07.Dark Squall 20:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

In regards to copyright
Bare in mind, Panini and the other COMPANIES used the statistics as part of profit... we're non-profit :-D Spum 14:02, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Player of the month/week
I changed that to an auto change thing, so this way we could see what the player of the month was previosly, easier. every week it changes. we are currently in week out of 52. Hope you don't mind. Bawolff ☺☻ 18:46, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

intreasting new wikibook
Football (Soccer). Bawolff ☺☻ 19:14, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

links broken
some of the inter-lang links are broken. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:52, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

chelsea crest
needs to be updated!

buh i think it's racism?
There is no UK FA (see the copyright at the bottom of the page) only the English one which you only seem to represent on here. and the badge (of the English footbal squad) is most likely copyright of the English FA. As I'm Scottish I find that highly offensive..you shouldn't call The Netherlands 'Holland' so don't call England the United kingdom...a Scottish king made it the united kingdom. 129.215.149.97 22:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sure no harm was meant. Best way to change that is to go change it. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 00:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm
The portal only seems to feature English football...
 * If you mean you want North american foot ball, see portal:football (American), if you mean soocer/football feel free to create stuff from other countries. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

i am now posting all games from 7 different European leagues in todays matches.Dark Squall 20:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

out of date
the news here seems to be really out of date. Could someone update it?
 * Feel free to update it. http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:football&action=edit Feel free to ask if you need any help. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Football obsessives have obviously not come across Wikipedia - needs a wanabee frustrated Sports Editor to manage it :(

Moved
I moved the "Create Article" and "Create Match Report" boxes into the main area. This makes sense to me, as they are grouped with the articles themsleves, and cause the page to be shorter. Also, it makes it easier to see the "Todays Matches" section. Any compaints?Dark Squall 04:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC) Also, i see no need for the "Players to Watch" section. May i remove it for the time being? i left them there for now, just in case.Dark Squall 04:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, feel free to remove/move as you please. Also the players to watch thing might also be a violation of WN:NPOV, in any case its not being updated, so no one's going to complain if you remove it. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

New Banner
I created and loaded a new banner. I believe this one works better with the scheme of the whole page. If anyone does not like it, please inform me, as i still have the info to change it back.Dark Squall 03:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, nice. Yes the new one looks better then the old banner. Are all you football people amazing at desiging portals, because spum's really old (not the one that used to be here) banner was amazing as well. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I actually thought it was too simple, but i guess not :D If Spum was the one who set the portal up as it is now, i'd say he did a fantastic job.  My personal opinion is that it is one of the best looking portals on here.  I was just wondering, if you notice, the text is still there underneath the black and it says Football Portal.  I was wondering if this could be changed to white, and have some sort of slogan for the the portal displayed.  I havent exactly though of one yet, but im working on it :D.  Thanks :)Dark Squall 01:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Clutter
I find the main page very cluttered. All the info is here, and it is annoying to have to scroll for me, so im sure it is for everyone. I am working on a selection bar which will have links to portal sub-pages, which will include: League tables, top scorers, relegation watch (another section i am working on), and Todays results. Todays results will still be on the main page, but a "more button will be included, leading to the subpage. Each subpage will have links to the other pages, as well as the main.  There will also be one league table and top scorers tables on the main page, but these will have links that say "Other League tables" and "Other league top scorers".  The tables that will appear on the front page will be the English Premiership (please god let the people not complain).  I am doing this all in order to make the Portal more sysinced, and easier to read for the casual viewer.  The more in depth viewer will take the time and use the links.  I am comparing this to SkySports.com, and I personal like the setup i am creating easier to use.  This is a forewarning of changes to come, all should be done byt the end of the week.  When it is done, let me know what you think.—Dark Squall 02:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Inter-Wiki project idea
I came up with an idea of having an inter-wiki project for Champions League, UEFA Cup and UEFA Intertoto Cup. The idea is we can have match reports from Wikinews and use them on Wikipedia article for 2008-09 Champions League, 2008-09 UEFA Cup and 2008 UEFA Intertoto Cup. There should be no sourcing issues since there is a requirement of 2 sources per match report.
 * 1) This is an inter-promotion thing for Wikimedia Foundation.
 * 2) All match reports would be of the same standard.
 * 3) The standard NPOV will be in the match reports as required by Wikinews and Wikipedia.

There will be 213 matches for Champions League, 359 UEFA Cup matches, 78 Intertoto Cup matches for a total of 650 matches. Therefore, there will be a number of people needed to do this. If you're interested or have any questions or comments, you can ask them here or if you would like to sign-up, you can go here. Don't write how this is too big or a bad idea. This is to survey to see how viable this is. However, if you have some constructive comment or question, then feel free to add. Kingjeff - (talk) 15:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I've scrapped the idea since I'm not with Wikipedia any longer.

Russian Premier League
Does anyone know of any credible sources for Russian Premier League match reports? Kingjeff (talk) 19:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

NPOV vs. match report
Are we allowed to make opinions regarding match reports? Donek (talk) 02:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Template:Football headlines
I commented out the box of manually updated headlines. For my reasoning, see Template talk:Football headlines. --InfantGorilla (talk) 16:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC)