Talk:Hezbollah leader alleges prior Israeli-US planning of current conflict

NPOV

 * This article is speculative and the opinion of one side. Have these "war plans" been released to media? If not, there is no basis of proof to this story. Ealturner 12:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

"More than a year ago, a senior Israeli army officer began giving PowerPoint presentations, on an off-the-record basis, to U.S. and other diplomats, journalists and think tanks, setting out the plan for the current operation in revealing detail." This proves(?) that Hezbollah did not uncover any top secret plans and also proves that this isn't speculative. I've made a mention of the first argument in a paragraph. --Jambalaya 14:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That proves nothing. For "proof" you need a copy of the original powerpoint presentation, a video of the presentation, a copy of original notes taken by journalist at the "off the record" briefing.

The article rests on a secondary source claim: //According to the San Francisco Chronicle an Israeli army officer, at an off-the-record briefing, presented a war plan last year.//

There is no factual basis to this article. It is POV. Ealturner 19:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * what is this, not a npv-problem. I think you push your pov by disputing this article. I republish as your argumentation is not strong enough. international 00:52, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ealturner: About 99.99% of everything written by WN use secondary sources. --Jambalaya 00:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * There is no factual basis to this article on any journalistic definition of the term. This article might be published but it is credible only to the credulous. Ealturner 16:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Big News

 * Wow! what an article; this is big news,imo. Neutralizer 18:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I suggest feature international 18:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Put it in first lead imop. Landas artical is less important. MyName 18:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Notice this artical, is currentally in the first and third lead, needs to be fixed. MyName 18:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

news?
the only new event appears to be Nasrallah's confirmation of the claim, broasdcast on Al Manar. but this is unsourced. the publication of the Al Watan El Arabi article is almost two months old, hardly news. Doldrums 18:33, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * and before we all get carried away and publihs this as first, second and third lead, i'm unpublishing this till the story can be sourced, and the new event reported as the news event. Doldrums 18:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * What is unsorced Doldrums? international 18:40, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nasrallah's comments made "yesterday" on Al Manar. Doldrums 18:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, that must be fixed. international 18:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The claim in itself is completely sourced. No one knows if Hezbollah it telling the truth or not though. I will again publish, but keep it out of lead until this can be verified.  MyName 18:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * please do NOT publish an article, any part of which is unsourced. see Content guide. Doldrums 18:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Per my understanding, the claims are completly sourced. I dont believe the claims though. Will put develop on anyway so you guys can fix that issue. MyName 18:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

source searching
According to Yahoo news Italy Hassan Nasrallah speaks on Hezbollah's al-Manar television Wednesday, July 26, 2006 [] but the Israeli war plan is not mentioned by Yahoo News. international 19:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * and here's the source. Doldrums 19:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

please
ensure that the article, foremost, reports the news event, giving only as much background as required to make sense of the event. do not suggest that nasrallah is referring to the Al-something published plans, unless the link can be sourced. Doldrums 19:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The al-Watan al-Arabi stuff is from UPI article international 22:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

New title (and article focus?
Hezbollah's leader claim they know'd Israeli/US war plan in advance

international 19:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * title has a few problems. should be "leader claims". forward slash ('/') should not be used in titles (use "Israeli-US" or "Israel,US" instead). maybe something like Hezbollah leader alleges prior Israeli-US planning of current conflict or even Hezbollah leader alleges Israeli-US conspiracy, if the sources support it. Doldrums 01:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed; title changed Neutralizer 12:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, how to make article npov
Most are claims from Hassan Nasrallah an rest attributed. It would be good with some reaction or other pov before publishing if findable. international 22:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * plan reported in SF chronicle appears to have a particular objective: knockout hezbollah military capabilities. the closest sourced statement we have is the quote from Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at Bar-Ilan University. "In a sense, the preparation began in May 2000, immediately after the Israeli withdrawal, when it became clear the international community was not going to prevent Hezbollah from stockpiling missiles and attacking Israel." i think we shld include it, and perhaps also mention the Israeli official statement on the objectives of the actual conflict. Doldrums 01:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed about including Steinberg statement and I see it has been included now. (Israeli official statement has been mentioned in so many articles it's well recorded on wikinews,imo). Neutralizer 12:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

AL Watan Al Arabi
Is there a english version of it? international 22:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Publish
I think it's ready. If not,please put back to develop. Neutralizer 12:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Motive to kidnap soldiers
Commenting on the article's statement that: "Nasrallah says they discovered this warplan and Hezbollah used the kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers to enter into the conflict directly and remove the surprise factor."

After Listening to Nasrallahs' speeches in Arabic, he does not say that. He says that based on world reaction, comments of world leaders, and events, it is aparent that this war was pre-planned. He says they were fortunate (or lucky) to have kidnapped the soldiers before Israel actually carried out its plan to attack Lebanon, as this gives them advantage, and has taken away the element of surprise from Israel.
 * Then this sorce, which most of article is based on, is bad.

Can you say if it is a case of bad interpretation or maybe intentional? international 00:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC) (its easier to keep discussion if you sign your comments, 4 ~ (tildes) make it good)

i added a source in french
I know that sources not in english are not welcome here.(even if foreign language sources would be added for the sack of neutality as sources are not always english speaking people ... i know it's strange ;) but this article give some POV from a north african country, Algeria. For those reading french it could be interresting to be read. Jacques Divol 12:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Here is a automated translation to english. Very interesting. Material for a article itself maybee. international 01:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)