Talk:Highway bridge in Minneapolis, Minnesota, collapses

Pictures
Can we get some pictures on here, before and after pics? --Drivec 00:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Looking for some free use. Immunity 00:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool, Thanks. --Drivec 00:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * All pics of the accident are probably from the wires... we'll be lucky to get any. -- Jay H 00:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Been scanning flickr, but really to no avail. Found one |picture, but not sure if its the same bridge. A before is fine, the after would be better for the comparison.
 * The new "after" pictures are great, but I liked it better with the "before" picture. Looks like someone has removed it. Thanks Suzi (rare contributor who can't remember login).

Immunity 01:07, 2 August 2007 (UTC) I need Dragonfire to quit removing "Kristi Rollwagen, Depart...", It is a necessary item to have until a few hours from now. —Drivec 01:09, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You need to proved a link to that info. Please stop adding unsourced info. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 01:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It is called CNN. Its a TV Channel... On TV...—Drivec 01:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That is not a source. We need a link. Live TV is not a source. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 01:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Who Says the source isn't already in one of the articles?—Drivec 01:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I read CNN...not there. Provide links and please listen to other users. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 01:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Suddenly it came to me... please listen to other users.—Drivec 01:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sourced... by the way, what could be worse than a busy tone to 911?—Drivec 01:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No its not. A live video feed is not a source, that copyvio. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 01:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll take it off...—Drivec 01:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Where is the source for suggesting to donate blood?—Drivec 01:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_213191448.html has more details about blood donation, I'll let others deal how to do that.

Doctors at HCMC are making a press conference about victims right now. Might take a while for information to get onto websites, since I'm watching MSNBC.com Live. -- Jay H 01:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Looking through my pictures now. Couldn't get very close.  May have more from another source in a few minutes.  (207.195.192.163 02:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC))
 * very disturbing pictures on www.kstp.com, a local news station. Killerkell81 17:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

OR
Press conference by medical center doctor confirms that one died from drowning. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 01:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Where is CNN getting its info about 3 dead? There will also be a formal briefing at city hall at 8:45 CDT. Are we not allowed to use sources we see from live video online such as MSNBC ? What is verbally reported on film seems no different than what is written in print. -- Jay H 01:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Style guide explains it all. Sourcing is mainly either written source or original reporting. Thunderhead - (talk) 01:30, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I was transcribing the press conference as best I could in the IRC room. Immunity 01:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

KAALTV.com has live feed from a Minneapolis station.
 * CNN, tied into a feed from the Mayor of Minneapolis, indicated 6 confirmed deaths
 * Info from City Officails press conference. 6 dead, metrodome safe, people being told to go downtown, Bridge construction to be done in 2007 DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 02:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * From MSNBC website:7 dead, 59 wounded. The source of the 7th fatality news was not mentioned, but HCMC officials told them about the 59 injuries.  The officials also said that 6 people are critically wounded. -Jason ost 03:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Rescue work has slowed, they've rescued everyone they can reach. Searching void spaces resumes in morning.  Is it still "Breaking News"?  (SEWilco 05:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC))
 * Well I would say no. I am watching the news until the live coverage stops. See Breaking? below... DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 05:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

At about 6:45 a.m. CDT, a spokesperson from the Minneapolis Police Department stated that after gathering current data from the scene and from local hospitals, the number of confirmed dead stands only at four. I will update the page to reflect this. 71.220.10.20 12:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You updated well, but please do not change source links. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 12:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Article title
Highway bridge? Isn't it an interstate?--64.83.205.187 01:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Basically the same thing. ;) - Enzo Aquarius 02:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't say its accurate to consider the bridge as connecting minneapolis to the university of minnesota. For one, the university of minnesota is in minneapolis. Secondly, the university is about 1/4 - 1/2 mile south of the bridge. The relevant bridge for the university is the Washington avenue bridge.

It is an 8 lane bridge, where four lanes were closed for construction. It is NOT a 4 lane bridge, as reported in the article. (Gary Vollink) 75.73.148.241 02:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

More OR
Press conference from City fire chief stats voids may contain survivors, but they may not be found until tomorrow and until the voids are safe. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 03:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Add remarks from George W. Bush press conference at 10:50 a.m. eastern time. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 15:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Dead kids?
This section is unclear, possibly implying that 7 of the 10 children admitted to a hospital have died.

The Red Cross said that 60 children were aboard, and that of those ten were admitted to a hospital.

Wikinews has learned that at least 7 have died.

222.92.222.182 03:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I've attempted to add words to clarify this, however, it is inelegant and begs rewording. Huntster 04:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I shuffled the kids further from the deaths. (SEWilco 05:42, 2 August 2007 (UTC))


 * It seems the stories of some of the children from the school bus are a little over exaggerated. From the StarTribune Of the 59 people aboard the bus, 10 were hospitalized and 9 of those children and one was an adult. The article states that reportedly the children have all been released.--67.173.47.123 07:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Images
Given that there are several images already present, and likely will be additional images made available as time progresses, perhaps it is appropriate to introduce the gallery code to the page? Alternatively, select two or three primary images and move the rest to a dedicated gallery on Commons. Huntster 04:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This looks interesting - http://www.flickr.com/photos/webdh/981665326/ don't know if it is in the public domain but if it is, it seems helpful. Tenioman
 * No, this image is non-free (see the "© All rights reserved" bit to the side). Beyond that, the image itself will be copyrighted by the mapping site it was taken from.  Either way, we cannot use it.  --  Huntster  T • @ • C 05:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Given the problems that the image list was causing, I've moved them to the bottom in a makeshift gallery, since apparently isn't enabled here (and rather clunky at times). If it isn't liked, move 'em back, but I think this solves more problems than leaving them as they were. -- Huntster  T • @ • C 07:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Some images should be in the article itself, too many at the bottom, and no one will notice. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 07:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, but too many detract from the article. Right now there are simple too many in the main body, even more than most Wikipedia articles.  Shuffle a few off to the bottom, or shuffle them to a dedicated Commons page, as I mentioned above.  Let the story be told by words, rather than be eclipsed by pretty pictures, ghastly as they may be. Sorry, just watched 300, so I'm in storytelling mode. --  Huntster  T • @ • C 09:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, IMO an article with pictures is more interesting, and more likely to be enjoyed. I always find I am more interested in an article if I can also see what is or has happened/ing. And I have always been told pictures are worth a 1,000 words. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 09:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not saying they aren't useful, to the contrary. I'm only saying that overuse can detract, and I feel this is the case here. --  Huntster  T • @ • C 09:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if this one is particularly useful, but I took a photo last night at dusk (so the light wasn't great) and I was able to line it up pretty close to a photo I'd taken previously for an article on Minneapolis' Mill District. --72.25.133.242 15:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC) (en:User:Bobak)


 * Can we use Images/ photos from the Ireport Feature in CNN Here are the Terms of use

Children under age 18 must have a parent or legal guardian's written permission to submit their material and such permission must accompany the material or it will not be considered.

Employees (and their immediate families and household members) of CNN and its parent, subsidiaries, divisions, and affiliated entities are not eligible to submit material.

By submitting your material, for good and valuable consideration, the sufficiency and receipt of which you hereby acknowledge, you hereby grant to CNN and its affiliates a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide license to edit, telecast, rerun, reproduce, use, syndicate, license, print, sublicense, distribute and otherwise exhibit the materials you submit, or any portion thereof, as incorporated in any of their programming or the promotion thereof, in any manner and in any medium or forum, whether now known or hereafter devised, without payment to you or any third party. You represent and warrant to CNN that you have the full legal right, power and authority to grant to CNN the license provided for herein, that you own or control the complete exhibition and other rights to the materials you submitted for the purposes contemplated in this license and that neither the materials nor the exercise of the rights granted herein shall infringe upon or violate the right of privacy or right of publicity of, or constitute a libel or slander against, or violate any common law or any other right of, any person or entity. This license shall be governed by the laws of the State of Georgia.

CNN has the right to edit and/or alter any submission. CNN reserves the right not to use the material you submit at all and/or as little of the material as it chooses.

You acknowledge and agree that by submitting your material you are not entering into an employment relationship with CNN and that no relationship is created other than licensor/licensee.

CNN values your privacy. The information you submit is subject to our privacy policy. Tenioman 19:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No, we may not use images from CNN. They are a competing news agency and it would not be appropriate. Where the images are user submitted they would also have to submit them to us under a license we can accept. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Just so that folks are aware, Image:35wBridgecollapse.gif is the GIF animation of the security video of the bridge collapsing. It is public domain (US Army Corps of Engineers-made) and available on Commons so it could be used here. 68.98.152.184 01:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I came across that, too. Since we can't add it to this article (the newsdate has passed), I have added it to the follow-up article, which is Death toll up to six in Minneapolis bridge collapse. --SVTCobra 01:23, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Phone template
That "Phone" template has a "clear" in it which causes problems in this article. Do other articles really need that? (SEWilco 05:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC))
 * Yup. Never saw it in my life until today. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 07:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "Yup" other articles need the template to have "clear"? (SEWilco 14:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC))
 * No I never seen that before this article. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 14:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Breaking?
I strikemy earlier comment about it NOT being breaking, I say date bump as death toll just went up. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 05:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * ...and the death toll went down. (SEWilco 14:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC))

Section edit links missing
Someone used an incantation which confused the wiki parser. The section [edit] tags are missing. (SEWilco 13:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC))
 * It looks like (added here: [ diff]) is the culprit and the parser was functioning as intended.  As I understand the syntax, any appearance of  outside of a &lt;nowiki> block should make the edit links disappear and this applies to pages where  is transcluded from another page (template) as well. For more information see Help:Section. I see no indication of the inclusion of that magic word when looking at the template page itself (not the source) and I see no documentation or talk page for it.  I can forsee this happening often: the template's rendering and name give no hint of that behavior.  (even if there were docs many wouldn't read them :-/)  --Jeremyb 08:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Removing the section edits doesn't make sense. Maybe the editor was trying to tell people not to edit the template.  I removed it.  (SEWilco 01:03, 4 August 2007 (UTC))

More Traffic Info
I'm not sure if this is appropriate for this page, but here's some traffic info Minneapolis residents might be interested in:
 * The Washington Ave exit from I-35W North is closed (though Washington Ave is open). Commuters are redirected to I-94 East.
 * The 10th/19th ave bridge is closed.
 * The nearby pedestrian bridge is closed.
 * University Ave is open, though the 35W overpass is at a virtual stand-still. It's crowded with onlookers and has been turned into a 4-way stop.

128.101.213.156 16:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Awesome coverage, guys.
Thanks for covering this with integrity and class. I really appreciate it. My town appreciates it. irid:t 21:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks also from Germany. I'm a journalist and some annoyed that German media are still reporting wrong and downplaying datas. Go on in investigating the reality and organizing support. M.L. Schuermann, Essen/Ruhr, D.

Striking pictures from minnesotan's on kstp.com a local news station. Killerkell81 17:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Country
Can we please have the country in the title or first paragraph, some people dont know where minnesota is like me. Thankyou.Enlil Ninlil 04:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The country is a category at the bottom of the page. Minneapolis, Minnesota is also wikilinked in the very first line of the article. Do we really need more? irid:t 04:17, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No...and not because of location, but because this story is getting old (this particular article) and changing the title, even for location would require in many cases a date bump. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 04:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

So why on this article Australian state of Victoria swears in new cabinet do we need the country and title, a bit confusing and contradictory. I just need clarity, pretty please. Enlil Ninlil 04:55, 4 August 2007 (UTC)