Talk:Iraqis say U.S. bombing killed 39 civilians

Does anyone have a record of all the stories about Iraqi civilians being killed?
Maybe it would be good to have an infobox? Neutralizer 21:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * That's a good thought. Not sure about wikinews but this site gives regular updates: http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ -- Rcameronw 21:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I put this back to develop because I felt as if it is lacking a ton of content that should be included (such as specifics of the attack, more accounts on gov't standing, etc.). --Mrmiscellanious 22:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I suppose more can be added to any story and Mrmiscellanious could certainly add something. However, since he has not so far, I think it is ok for publishing. Perhaps another editor could have some input? Neutralizer 23:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I have added more content to the story. Neutralizer 00:26, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Any more concerns or can this now be published?
I've rejigged the last two parags to give it a more conclusive feel, and rephrased "did not acknowledge that" with "neither confirmed nor denied that"... I guess "has not confirmed whether or not" might do just as well. I think we've got a balanced story now, in any case. But if anyone would like to expand it further, there's more info here from CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/17/iraq.main/ -- Rcameronw 09:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * added content and another source and published. If anyone remains concerned, please unpublish and try to edit the story yourself to deal with your concerns. Neutralizer 13:55, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Why do stories about civilians our side kill get less attention?
With this event and another that happened in Afghanistan about a month ago, we seem to have killed more innocents than our enemy did with the London Bus/train bombings. Why do wikinews contributors put so much more attention into stories about one than the other? Is it our natural tendancy or are we just following mainstream western media in that regard? Neutralizer 14:00, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Both maybe? I guess it's a lot easier to identify/sympathise with / get motivated to write about people killed in your own town (or one very much like it) than it is with people whose lives are (or seem) very different from your own. Plus the relative ease of gathering information closer to home. These seem like very natural tendencies to me - although I feel that it's good that we try to overcome them. I think most of us would agree that all civilian deaths are equally deserving of attention.


 * I think people also feel more strongly about killings where civilians were deliberately targetted than where civilians were killed (apparently) unintentionally - although of course, from the point of the view of the people getting killed (and their families) the question is perhaps rather more academic. -- Rcameronw 15:36, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * There are some historical studies to indicate that civillians (particularly women) are more likely to be killed or hurt in a war than soldiers themselves. Kinda puts some perspective on the term collatoral damage. I think it has to do with having your fellow countrymen as soldiers (and being seen as heroes and liberators and whatnot) and the opposing as an enemy seen as "evil". Civillians are always this neutral force that almost seems like part of the scenery. They aren't "involved" in the eyes of the war. --Wolfrider 15:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Yep - a pretty shocking stat from a "human security report" examined in one of the developing stories here (.) is a finding that, on average, a full 90% of deaths in war are civilian - and that women are disproportionately represented. Actually, though I think it's important we focus on the conflicts that our own countries are directly involved in, it's possibly also true that most such deaths actually take place in African wars where few if any westerners are directly involved (hence, in part, all my wikinews stories about Africa!).


 * The guy who wrote this story up for the Guardian now appears to have been kidnapped by the insurgency (I've done a short piece on this for wikinews). Rcameronw 14:29, 19 October 2005 (UTC)