Talk:Mobile operator Orange bills French doctor €160,000 for one month of Internet use

Please note that for the purpose of making the sources verifiable, I have translated them here into English. They are sufficiently accurate as to indicate the content of the original sources. I have also not bothered with formatting for time constraint reasons.

TF1
One month of internet = €160,000

By TF1 News (via newswires), November 18, 2009

An emergency room doctor using an unlimited 3G dongle with Orange didn't believe his eyes when he received his bill. This is the third case that has come to light in a week - and it is a record.

In the space of barely a few days, it is the third grotesque situation to come to light - but this time, the bill reached a record: it was no longer a few thousand, nor even a few tens of thousands of euros, but a bill reaching almost €160,000. The price of an appartment... The holder of the record - which he would quite happily go without - is an emergency doctor living in Fontainebleau, south-west of Paris, subscribed to the internet with an unlimited 3G dongle. Six months later he is in litigation with Orange, he says.

"To begin with I thought it was a joke", says Jean Spadaro, confirming a story from l'Observateur du Valenciennois. This paper had already revealed last week a similar misadventure experienced by Eric Gernez, a resident of Petite-Forêt near to Valenciennes. "I subscribed in November 2008 to a basic internet access by 3G dongle at €30 per month" but "seeing my bills reach sums going up to €860 in April, I decided in May to subscribe to an unlimited acess by 3G dongle with Orange business at €50 per month. When I saw my bill for May, I couldn't believe my eyes: €159,212, for one month's connection, it's impossible, especially as we don't use it all of the time" adds this father of two children, aged 16 and 19. Contacted, France Télécom had not replied by the end of Tuesday evening.

Dozens of similar stories told on forums

According to the doctor, France Télécom never explained to him that the "unlimited" package only related to the time spent but not the volume used, limited to 1 Gigaoctet per month. Thus, the doctor's bills, not listed in detail, are €53 for February, €346 for March, €860 for April before leaping to more than €159,000 in May. The doctor also says, letters in hand, that he had increased the number of protest actions and had received in response "warnings with threats of seizure".

"When I started to tell them that I was going to go to the media about this affair, they sent me emails to tell me two different credits to my bill for €22,622 and €136,529. Me, I want to be reimbursed and compensated because I had to pay fees" to block the direct debit, he insisted.

Before the doctor, a head of an insurance brokerage firm in Saint-Herblain subscribed to the unlimited 3G dongle, Christophe Aupy-Fargues, had confirmed on Monday having blocked the payment of a bill for €39,500 demanded by Orange. He confirmed that the operator had promised to alert clients in case of significant overruns to their packages. Last week, Eric Gernez recounted having received a bill for €45,000 for one month's internet connection with his "unlimited" 3G card. "It was watching a story on TV that I saw that I was not alone and I decided to alert the press", said Jean Spadaro today. "I have been a client with Orange for 17 years. I don't want to attack their image, but here, enough is enough. It's a question of principles", says the doctor, who highlights that "on forums, dozens of subscribers tell similar stories".

--Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Le Parisien
And now a bill for nearly €160,000 for a 3G dongle

Always higher. Always heavier.

An emergency room doctor, subscribed to the internet with an unlimited 3G dongle, told AFP on Tuesday that he has been in litigation with the operator Orange for the last six months after having received a bill for €159,212, marking the third case of this type made public in a week.

The 3G dongle with its mobile, pratical and light character is taking over the "boxes" with internet users, until now used to access the network.

"To begin with I thought it was a joke", said Jean Spadaro to Agence France-Presse, confirming a story from l'Observateur du Valenciennois. This paper had already revealed last week a similar misadventure experienced by Eric Gernez, a resident of Petite-Forêt near to Valenciennes, who received a bill for €45,000 for August.

Basically, a subscription of €50 per month

"I subscribed in November 2008 to a basic internet access by 3G dongle at €30 per month" but "seeing my bills reach sums going up to €860 in April, I decided in May to subscribe to an unlimited acess by 3G dongle with Orange business at €50 per month," explained Jean Spadaro, emergency room doctor living in Fontainebleau (Seine-et-Marne).

"When I saw my bill for May, I couldn't believe my eyes: €159,212, for one month's connection, it's impossible, especially as we don't use it all of the time" explains this father of two children, aged 16 and 19.

An unlimited package but not for downloads

Spadaro's bills which are not listed in detail, of which AFP has a copy, are for €53 for February, €346 for March, €860 for April before brutally increasing to €159,212 for May.

According to him, France Télécom never explained to him that the "unlimited" package only applied to the time spent but not the volume used, limited to 1 Gigaoctet per month. He also says that in response to all of his attempts he received "warnings with threats of seizure. When I started to tell them that I was going to go to the media about this affair, they sent me emails to tell me two different credits to my bill for €22,622 and €136,529". The hurt client does not appear to want to leave it there. "Me, I want to be reimbursed and compensated because I had to pay fees" to block the direct debit, he insisted.

Contacted, France Télécom had not replied by the end of Tuesday evening. This is the third case of "overbilling" made public in a week. Outraged, Eric Gernez, a head of an insurance brokerage firm in Saint-Herblain (west of Nantes) also said on Monday that he had been billed €39,500 in August for his unlimited 3G dongle.

Leparisien.fr with Agence France-Presse

--Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 20:14, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

L'Observateur du Valenciennois
3G mobile phones: new astronomical bill for €159,212

The staggering bill corresponds to usage for May 2009.

The misadventure of the café owner in Petite-Forêt, which we revealed November 13, seems to be far off being isolated. It partially unblocked the situation for a doctor in Fontainebleau who owes more than €159,000 to Orange.

Updated November 18, 2009

If Eric Gernez's incredible story, revealed November 13 by l'Observateur du Valenciennois, has reached an amiable agreement, it is not the case for other people in his position. At Saint-Herblin, west of Nantes, the head of an insurance brokerage firm in subscribed to the unlimited 3G dongle, Christophe Aupy-Fargues, confirmed on Monday in Ouest France having blocked the payment of a unlimited 3G pro (1) bill for €39,500 demanded by Orange. But the most suprising case appeared on Tuesday directly to the news team at l'Observateur du Valenciennois. Jean Spadaro, a doctor in Fontainebleau (Seine-et-Marne), has been in litigation with the operator Orange since June 2009 for a bill of €159,212!

"Unlimited connection"

In January 2009, this 47-year-old emergency doctor who practices in Montargis (Loiret) during the week and lives in Fontainebleau at the weekend, father of two sons aged 16 and 19, subscribed to a 3G+ Orange business package for his professional and personal requirements.

To begin with he was happy with a package at €30. But very quickly, the monthly bills soared because of connections not included in the package. €346 in March, €860 in April... To remedy this problem, Jean Spadaro decided to subscribe to the unlimited offer at €62. The doctor believed himself finally safe. From May, with the term "unlimited connection" in mind, Spadaro and his two sons blithely used the 3G+ dongle to connect to the internet from their appartment in Fontainebleau, which did not have a DSL connection.

"Unlimited connection" certainly, but only for the time used. Not for the volume of downloads. The package included a quota of 1 Gigaoctet per month, which corresponded to a moderate usage (reception of emails for example). Whereas, as good internet users, the members of the Spadaro family surfed Facebook, YouTube, sent emails with attachments, received them, etc. So much expensive data. €0.17 per Megabyte. €170 per Gigabyte (2). But that, the Spadaro familly didn't know yet.

The beginning of June, a thus perfectly confident Jean Spadaro learns of his bill for May. Upon opening the envelope, he expected to read an amount neighbouring the cost of his subscription. Error. The sum is astronomical: €159,212! Enough to make an emergency doctor's head spin who nevertheless comfortably earns his living.

"I thought it was a joke"

"I thought it was a joke. Even if I had had an extremely intense internet usage, I still ask myself how it is possible to reach such a figure!" comments the concerned party who considers having been "poorly informed by Orange's customer services". He also accuses the operator of never having alerted him of the difference in his consommation.

Following this staggering bill, Jean Spadaro put aside his 3G+ dongle. "I never touched it again", he says. The following bills return to normal.

However, the Bellifontain nightmare did not end. "Since June, I've spent hours writing emails, letters or calling Orange to ask for an explanation. I've been passed from call centre to call centre, from customer services to debt collection. No one at Orange was able to give me the slightest clarification. A real wall", says the man in his forties who has never contacted a consumer association, "due to lack of time and also because I trusted the people with whom I was speaking". In addition to the time lost there are also the fees: "The following months, Orange tried to debit the sum from my account, causing rejection fees from my bank and unpaid fees from the operator. Around €35 each time".

Today Jean Spadaro has lost patience and no longer puts up with the way his operator considers his problem. "All I want is honesty and transparency", he explains, tired by six months of "battling".

Orange offered him "a credit"

When at the end of last week he stumbled upon the article on the Observateur du Valenciennois internet site concerning the case of Eric Gernez, he also threatened Orange with the press. "The result did not tardy", he continues. "A customer services representative and a debt collector immediately contacted me by email November 16. And immediately afterwards I received a credit of €136,529". A first credit having already been sent to him in June, Orange now considers the dossier as "definitively resolved". A situation which does not satisfy Jean Spadaro at all, apart from the fact that the sums do not tally, simply wishes that the bill be cancelled.

"The anniversary of my contract is set at February 21, 2010. I will cancel all of my subscriptions to Orange: 3G+ dongle, but also mobile telephone and internet", he promises. He has been a client with the operator since 1997.

Pierre Chemel

(1) A 3G+ dongle allows connection to the internet via the mobile phone network.

(2) For example, a standard digital picture is between three and around twenty Megaoctets depending on whether it is compressed or not (Jpeg, Raw...). The transfer can therefore cost up to €3.50.

--Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 21:23, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

New information published after article was written
Orange: we will work with each client Interviewed on France 2 on Wednesday, Jean-Paul Cottet, director of the business market for France, said that the problems were marginal. 4,000 professionals have opted for a package with a 3G key. It is "a 24/24 but not unlimited offer. Out of these 4,000 cases, there are 1% which are a problem" he explained, listing about thirty "absurd bills". "We will correct that", he promised. "We will work with each client".

Jean-Paul Cottet said that the general public offers better protect the client than the professional offers. Once the authorised limit of downloads reached, the service quality diminishes but there is no overbilling. Asked about the information given to clients about the conditions of billing outside of the package, Elizabeth Alvez, communications representative for the regional department for the North of France, said that "all the tarification information is available at points-of-sale and on orange.fr. This information is given as part of the dialogue between the client and the vendor. We are obliged to communicate the prices." However one must take the time to read the entire contract with the salesperson before signing.

Review of revision 913858 [Passed]
"a demand large enough to make an emergency-room doctor's head spin." Is that sourced? Otherwise, come on...that doesn't belong in a news article. Calebrw (talk) 21:04, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * From the third source "Erreur. La somme est astronomique : 159 212 euros ! De quoi donner le vertige à un médecin urgentiste qui gagne pourtant confortablement sa vie." The full translation of the article is above. --Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 21:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)