Talk:Mumbai Police investigations indicate Pakistani role in 11/7 serial blasts

editprotected

This article is relevant to the ISI - therefore, it also needs to be sorted into the Category:ISI. Ali Rana (talk) 05:28, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ &mdash; Gopher65talk 00:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

confirms -> claims
He is in no position to confirm the fact, only to claim that his investigations support the link. TRWBW 23:28, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * He has claimed it before, most sources use the word "confirm", we can change it to "reveal", that would be OK. PVJ(Talk)(Articles I have written) [[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 03:29, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Pakistan has denied any ISI role. Doldrums 04:28, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Then put it somewhere in the article, although it's obvious that they would deny their role in the attacks. PVJ(Talk)(Articles I have written) [[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 05:00, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Indian National Security Advisor has stated that India doesn't have clinching evidence against ISI-

Tahni 03:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

NPOV
The Indian police have made claims, but there evidence hasn't been independently verified, and their claim is disputed by Pakistan. In it's current form the title and the body of the article state these claims as fact, without balancing the Pakistani denials. The only evidence mentioned in the source is "narco-analysis", i.e. they got it by questioning suspects who they doped up on sedatives. TRWBW 10:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Your unnecessary commentary about the investigative techniques used by the Mumbai Police are not appreciated and are irrelevant to any (suggested) NPOV violations. If you wish to offer your insights as to whether or not narcoanalysis is justifiable, you may contact the Bombay High Court. PVJ(Talk)(Articles I have written) [[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 14:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I think this article can be made NPOV by sticking to undisputed facts. I suggest identifying the claims of the Mumbai police as claims, put their statements in quotes, and include the Pakistani denials on an equal footing. It is also not disputed that Mumbai police give, as the sources of their evidence, statements from suspects drugged with sedatives. How the police got the evidence is relevant. TRWBW 14:32, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) There is ample evidence to show that the ISI was involved in the blasts. 2) Pakistani denials will be added to the article. 3) Narcoanalysis is a legitimate and commonly used form of interrogation, definitely more so than naked pyramids. 4) How the police conducted their probe is not relevant, this article deals with the findings of the investigation, not the investigation itself. PVJ(Talk)(Articles I have written) [[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 16:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

NDTV link
is this the right one. Doldrums 16:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

narco-analysis
Narco-analysis wasn't the only technique used, but it was the only one that linked the suspects to ISI. Since this article is about that link, I think its relevant enough to be up top. http://www.ibnlive.com/news/how-police-cracked-7-11-case/22900-3.html Narco-analysis is a controversial technique, according to its wikipedia entry "information obtained by publicly-disclosed truth drugs has been shown to be highly unreliable, with subjects apparently freely mixing fact and fantasy". TRWBW 16:57, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * What does any of this have to do with the actual article? The Mumbai Police have stated that they have linked the ISI with 11/7, and that's what we will report.
 * By the way, Wikipedia also mentions the use of truth-serums (together with ample doses of sleep-deprivation and the occasional "uncomfortable posture") in certain other detainment centres. PVJ(Talk)(Articles I have written) [[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 17:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It goes to the believability of the evidence. From CNN-IBN "Narco-analysis showed the involvement of the Lashkar and the Jaish as well as the ISI." This article is about the involvement of ISI. The accuracy of statements made under narc-analysis is controversial, at the least. This is entirely relevant. The accuracy of statements obtained by other forms of interrogation are controversial as well, and if the Indian police have used them, that should be mentioned as well. TRWBW 17:44, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * it is not clear from the CNN-IBN article or other news reports i saw whether the narco-analysis provided the initial leads or is part or whole of the evidence. to suggest that the link to ISI is "based on" the narco-analysis, or to highlight its use in the lead paragraph, is therefore inappropriate. it should, and is, mentioned further below. Doldrums 17:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I've read it again and it still seems to me that they aren't giving any evidence for the ISI link except the statements made under drugs. I looked for some more sources, and found in The Boston Globe "He offered no evidence to support the link, but said it was revealed during the questioning of suspects who had been drugged with a ``truth serum" to force them to divulge information." from http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/10/01/indian_police_link_pakistan_to_train_blasts_in_mumbai/ TRWBW 17:57, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * yep, the Indian authorities have not yet made the evidence public, but have stated they have the evidence, and that they intend to share some(?) of it with Pakistan. Doldrums 17:59, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Can we put something up front that states this? Something like "The Mumbai police discovered the ISI link during narco-analysis ("truth-serum") interrogations of suspects, and have stated they have further evidence that they intend to share with Pakistan."?


 * Is there a source for their statement that they have further evidence, and will share it? TRWBW 18:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * there're sources for "they intend to share", but we don't know about "further evidence" - we don't know what the evidence consists of, only that some of the leads came from narco-analysis. and it is because we dont really know how significant this narco-analysis is, that we shldn't highlight it in the lead. u can add the "discovered during narco-analysis" later on, and indeed, it's alrady mentioned. if u can improve the wording on that mention, go ahead. Doldrums 18:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * K. P Raguvanshi, head of the Anti-Terror Squad say he has enough evidence to nail the ISI in the 7/11 blasts and the ATS will present the evidence in the court. PVJ(Talk)(Articles I have written) [[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 06:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Evidence Against ISI Not Clinching
According to the Hindustan times, "India has "pretty good" but probably not "clinching" evidence of the involvement of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in the Mumbai train blasts of July 11, National Security Adviser MK Narayanan has said."

Please read the full story at :http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1826089,0008.htm

Tahni 03:45, 26 October 2006 (UTC)