Talk:Photo Essay: Cherry Blossoms Bloom in DC

Awesome work
Excellent work as always matey :) - Cartman02au (Talk)(AU Portal) 21:11, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks Carman02au! And thanks for the Tea!  That was very kind. -Drew 21:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Do I need to say I liked this? Well, I thought it was more effective to put it up as Featured. --Brian McNeil / talk 21:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't mean to offend/attack, the pictures are rather awesome, but some of them could use some postprocessing. --80.172.138.71 00:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't mean to tell you that you don't know what you are talking about, but you don't. All the photos have been post processed with color correction, dust removal and straightening.  The white flakes you see are blossoms blowing in the wind.  The colors are Washington, DC on a very blustery and VERY overcast day.  Moreover, I do not crop photographs as a photojournalist as I believe it is a distortion of what my lens captured.  Finally, if you are going to open your mouth and criticize someone's work, have the courtesy of logging in and identifying yourself. -Drew 01:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Take it easy fella. Don't get mad at people criticizing and offering suggestions.  You of course don't have to listen to it. Also, photojournalists crop all the time, that isn't a huge issue. Hell, before zoom lenses, photographers for papers and the like would use wide angle lenses on their view cameras to get everything they could, and then crop heavily.  65.27.76.238 23:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Its not the cropping that gets me so much as the anonymous signing of criticism. I minimally crop, but never when it changes the story.  You all trust me to tell the story in  pictures that I see, how would it look if I cropped to tell the story I wanted to tell?  That is what I meant. -Drew 16:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Drew, I just want to state that this is the kind of thing that Wikinews needs more of: skilled contributors going out and writing/photographing interesting events. The photos are gorgeous, and thanks for doing it. Lyellin 02:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

NotNews
It happens every year; not a news event. Everyday there is an annual festival somewhere. Also not collaborative. Neutralizer 14:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Out of respect for the opinion of other editors, I will not change the 3rd. lead as I do not expect this tag to be treated with any respect. If the tag is still there in a little bit, I will change the 3rd lead. Neutralizer 14:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Let me ask one question: Why have you tagged this article now when you never tagged his "photo essays" in the past as not news, given there have been about 3 or 4 since I have been around and I do not recall ANY issue with them. Jason Safoutin 14:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I did tag them before. I have also decided I needed to revert the 3rd. lead as is our policy. Neutralizer 14:11, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Photo journalism is news. And it is journalism and its original. I see no actionable objections. Unless you can state as to exactly why this does nto qualify as news, other than your POV of "it happens every year," then there are no actionable objections. Jason Safoutin 14:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This contravenes what wikinews is AND What Wikinews is not
These are the 3 actionable objections quoted from our policies:


 * 1) "Wikinews is about news. Our articles are on current events, we are not in the business of writing history books or encyclopedia entries.""This is current. It is happening as we speak. Jason Safoutin 14:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)"
 * 2) "Wikinews is collaborative. A Wikinews story does not have one reporter as its author" "How is this not collaborative? You can add a little bit about the trees and who gave them to the U.S. People are not perfect and as i recall since I have been here you have NOT tagged previous articles. If you did...show me...because I never saw it. Jason Safoutin 14:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)"
 * 3) "Wikinews is not an encyclopedia; that is, it is not an in-depth collection of non-newsworthy information. Just because something is a true fact doesn't mean it is suitable for inclusion here. Try Wikipedia instead.""I think that this is just being used as an excuse to amke your POV heard. I see this as news, as I had no Idea about this until I saw the images. Which are ORIGINAL PHOTOJOURNALISM. That is QUITE acceptable to Wikinews. Jason Safoutin 14:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)"

It's a clear cut case of inappropriate content for Wikinews. If the community wants to allow photo essays, then we need to scrap our notnews tag as well as change our WN:NOT and WN:IS policies. Neutralizer 14:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Your statement is just plain silly. I suppose you are going to say that the hotel articles are note news because you cannot talk to anyone in them? Jason Safoutin 14:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I have to go to work now; hopefully the tag will be treated with respect and these objections will be dealt with in full. This "essay" really should be put up for speedy deletion. Neutralizer 14:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you are in a bad mood and I think at this point you are threatening an article and this is site disruption. Jason Safoutin 14:36, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No; I suggest,DragonFire, that you need to read w:Wikipedia:Harassment as your comments could be interpreted as being harrassment and also please pay attention to the Wikistalking section of our Harrassment policy. I do not expect to see any more personal comments about my mood nor any site disruption references on this talk page. Neutralizer 21:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Harassment? Stalker? Maybe you need to define your accusations. Or I might consider this a personal attack. Jason Safoutin 12:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

It's news
In France, journalists are calling this kind of news a "Marronnier". You can see some example here (in french) : fr:Marronnier.

other kinds : Chineese New year, Saint-Valentin (lovers day),Saint Patrick day, Cannes Festival (Berlin festival for german,Venise for Italian, Academy Awards for US people !), beaujolais nouveau, French Cyclist Tour, Snow time, Spring time,  ... each year, each season, its back (i am forgeting Haute Couture shows !!!)

So it's news,even if it's recurent (and there's no problem with the what is-- what is not pages) !

it's neutral and have some spring time smell not bad between 2 attrocity or economic news)


 * Is there's some bias using this kind of marronnier, yes, of course, but wikinews have many bias ! Jacques Divol 15:28, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

of course, i do not think you could win Pulitzer Prize with this kind of news, but why not ? (big smile) Jacques Divol 15:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, just cuz it happens every year, don't mean it ain't news. News years day stories about the past year are one of the most traditional news items on the plannet, for example.  Nyarlathotep 19:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Sakura, hanami, is an annual event/celebration. The are akin to other holidays and events, and qualify as phenomenon under the Content guide. The news article should be categorized under Culture and entertainment. A photoessay is one of many traditional forms of news reporting and gathering, and one which we should encourage. It is collaborative in the layout, captioning, related news coverage, and background which may be added to this article. For these reasons the not news tag is inappropriate, and inaccurate, and I will remove it. -  Amgine | talk en.WN 19:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Please note that Sakura is the plant, and Hanami the activity of sitting under them (and typically consuming alcohol and eating food, relaxing with freinds and relatives, and/or loved one(s)). I have made the necessary changes to the article for you.
 * a very goog think : Sakura hanami. I love that ! :) Jacques Divol 08:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Patent Nonsense
I respectfully disagree. It is patent nonsense to say this article fits within our what wikinews is AND What Wikinews is not parameters. If some wish to break the spirit and letter of those policies I suggest you may wish to consider applying the "ignore all rules" policy again as justification. The tag should go back up and history will prove that to be the case, I'm sure. The esoteric non-logic of removing the tag will be seen for exactly what it is; something that downgrades the paper to the status of neighborhood newsletter. Neutralizer 21:18, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * For future reference, I'll add my opinion on this. While this isn't breaking news, it's journalism - you know, when events are journalized. It may be a lesser news than some non-annual event, but it is news. Perhaps if we had only so many stories we could publish a day, this one would be bumped for a day or more (the sort of thing that happens in real news papers), but that limitation just doesn't exist here - and as far as I know Wikinews is trying to encourage more news stories.  And yes, there was a good deal of contribution from other editors - you can see that in the edit history.  Because of this story, I learned a bit of history, a bit about the cherry trees that bloom every year, a bit about Japan (even from some of the comments here) and the U.S., and enjoyed the professional photos that the original author contributed.  I'd object if I saw this every year for three years straight, just as I'd object after a few days of "The Sun rose this morning" headlines.  For the record, I'm going to print this one and show my friends, whose interest in all-things-botanical exceeds my own. Very nice job! 4.235.159.104 21:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * If you would like, I could present a point-by-point explanation of how this article qualifies under both those policies, both of which reference Content guide. This is not a case of ignoring either the rules, or your concerns. You would not object to articles regarding such cultural events as Christmas Holiday events, or comemorating the Invasion of Iraq, each of which is an annual event. Likewise recognition of Ramadan, Bastille Day, and Chinese New Year. Equinoctial or Solstitial events are also specific ones, though I don't recall anyone being interested enough to write an article about them.


 * I would love to "downgrade" Wikinews to the level of, and ubiquity of, a neighborhood paper. It would be fabulous to have coverage of block parties, neighborhood construction projects, local school board meetings, and city alderman elections in many if not most neighborhoods across the world. In previous discussions there's generally agreement that the smallest stories we should cover would be of interest to a neighborhood or larger (so Joe Smith's family reunion barbecue is out, but the Seward Neighborhood Annual Picnic is in.)


 * It is, however, rather rude to describe an annual observation, which the DC cherry blossom festival is for hundreds of thousands of people, as "patent nonsense". It may not be news you're interested in reading, but clearly other people are interested. I don't read all of the local paper either, but I wouldn't denigrate the sections I don't find interesting. -  Amgine | talk en.WN 21:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Amgine's misrepresentation or mistake is likely obvious, but just to emphasize it; noone said the event was nonsense; the words are right there for Amgine to read "It is patent nonsense to say this article fits within..." What is rude is Amgine misquoting me and then calling me "rude" as if his misquote was accurate. Whenever Amgine uses negative personal adjectives it is always a good idea to check the edit he uses to justify those adjectives; typically Amgine's use of words like "rude" has no basis in fact. Neutralizer 00:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * What Amgine is saying fits neatly with the article, The New Wisdom of the Web, in the latest Newsweek edition. -Edbrown05 02:12, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, I guess I just don't understand this aspect. It would seem to me then, if I am following, that the quality of the photos have no effect upon the news value of the "essay", and that if I take some crappy photos of the santa claus parade in Toronto; that would be usable here on Wikinews. Or are you saying that the photos must be professional quality? Neutralizer 04:16, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * If you want to write a little story about a parade -- any parade -- and include some crappy pictures, please feel free. Original reporting about local events is more than welcome. I hope that one day we'll have dozens of stories about local events (parades, sporting events, business stories) with tons of photos (crappy or professional). --Chiacomo (talk) 04:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Cool; this might be something I can get into. Easter's just around the corner. Neutralizer 04:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Lords know I've taken some crappy pictures for Wikinews -- and uploaded some pretty crappy audio segments... :D --Chiacomo (talk) 04:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Save yourself some time and use one of those cheap camera phones and call in the story. Meanwhile, what's all this complaining about? This seems like a straight forward case of good photo-journalism.  Karen 07:49, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I bought a cheap 20 dollar camera at the store before I got a decent one. I too have taken some bad pictures and put them in an article. But most of the pictures I took are ones that are not published anywhere else and the fact you can get that picture no one else can get at that moment...you know waht I mean. Good work. The picturtes are teriffic. Jason Safoutin 12:55, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Conclusion ?
It's seem that exept User:Neutralizer, all the people talking here seem to agree that Photo Essay: Cherry Blossoms Bloom in DC is a regular, correct wikinews article.
 * Okay ? Jacques Divol 08:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Agree Jacques Divol
 * 2) Agree Jason Safoutin 12:49, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) Agree Polaris999 21:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, sorry,folks; I think I finally get it
Apologies for being a pain on this. I just could not figure out how we could use the "notnews" label on other stuff and not this. I think I finally understand the reasoning. Most any kind of current original reporting; photo essay etc. is welcome. Non-original stuff which isn't really a "current news" item does not qualify. So if there is an article somewhere about Prescott Bush financing Hitler's rise to power, that is "not news". Do I have it now? Neutralizer 18:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, sort of... If there's a relevant current news event you might include information such as that referenced above (though it shouldn't dominate the article -- the article should primarily be about the current event)... The information about Prescott Bush and Hitler might be appropriate for some Wikipedia articles, however, so long as it's appropriately sourced. --Chiacomo (talk) 02:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Tupence
Just want to say that I kicked off the whole "not news" thing this time last year, just as Neutralizer mentions. However personally I've mellowed a bit... this story made me smile, and I certainly don't object to it :-) Dan100 (Talk) 06:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)