Talk:The Vatican: Pope suffers from congestive heart failure

I think that the title of this article is misleading. The pope is suffering from heart failure, but that doesn't mean that his heart ever stopped beating. I couldn't anything that said this in the reference. Teeks99 14:58, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I just read the source listed. I agree with Teeks99. IlyaHaykinson, do you have a different source for the "heart briefly stopped beating" claim? (On another note, perhaps this article could be rolled into the lead, Pope in medical crisis or improved and made the lead itself. I have no problem with new articles on the same subject as news develops, but I think the most prominent should be the most recent, which is not the case right now.) Pingswept 15:21, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I just noticed that the summary for the lead has the same problem...but I didn't want to put a disputed tag on the summary (and I'm not sure how). Teeks99 15:38, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that heart failure does not mean that your heart would stop beating. My grandmother has been living with conjestive heart failure for over a year.  I believe it is just a term used to mean that the heart isn't working correctly.  See: Heart failure


 * The Pope suffered from a cardio-circulatory collapse. Easiest way to generally explain cardio-circulatory collapse according to Dr. Sanjay Gupta of CNN and Assistant Professor of Department of Neurological Surgery, Associate Chief of the Neurosurgery Service at Grady Memorial Hospital, Atlanta : cardio-circulatory collapse means NOT ENOUGH BLOOD FLOW which can lead to LOW BLOOD PRESSURE which can lead to HEART FAILURE but cardio-circulatory collapse is not technically the same thing as heart failure.:::

This is another matter entirely from the normal news stories, as this is an ongoing matter. This is such an important story that you cannot remove it. While it is misleading, it is certain that people like myself will be looking for updates desperately on the ailing pontif's condition. And this provides a much needed summary. Please, do not take this article off.


 * I don't think this is an issue anymore, but for future reference I think the thing to do would be take this down and replace it with another article (with a good title) and the same content.

From MSNBC - help needed to correct main page
MSNBC Said:

On Thursday afternoon, the pope suffered heart failure and a condition called “septic shock” during treatment for the infection, the Vatican said Friday, but it denied an Italian news report that he was in a coma.

SO.... he did suffer heart failure, but if you look at the wikipedia explanation of heart failure you'll see that this doesn't mean that his heart stopped beating, even briefly. Therefore, I think this article needs to be removed because the title suggests something which isn't true. Also the lead article summary should be edited to remove this line. I'd do it, but I'm not sure how to do either of those things. Teeks99 16:42, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Heart failure / heart stopped beating
I looked at the MSNBC story, and indeed the heart stopped beating part isn't there anymore. However, this is not something that I made up: it was there in the original story. If you search Google news for pope "heart stopped beating" you'll see references to other wire stories picked up by other agencies where the words "heart stopped beating" are no longer part of the story, even though they're in Google's cache as having that phrase.

I imagine what happened is that the AP story was incorrect in the version that I saw. It must have gotten corrected by the AP overnight to say "heart failure". -- IlyaHaykinson 23:37, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Just click on MSNBC's history tab, and you'll be able to check . . . oh, that's right--they don't have a history tab. Pingswept 23:46, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * There was a brief revert war over a paragraph or three earlier... I havne't had a chance to get back to figure out what was going on, just had a second to try and stop it from escalating.
 * Heart stopping is not a usual feature of heart failure though. - 24.86.201.239 23:59, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Moving article to new title...
Spoke with a couple people, including the initial dispute tag applier... Have agreement to a new title and to remove the dispute tag. - Amgine 00:11, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Title is still wrong
Cardiovascular collapse secondary to sepsis is not "congestive heart failure".