Talk:Wikinews international report: "Anonymous" holds anti-Scientology protests worldwide

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Locations
Add / remove as necessary. The ones there at the moment are the ones with any correspondent (even tentative) listed on User:Skenmy/APC. The idea behind this article is that we flesh it out with background info on the protests, and then it is updated throughout the day with location reports as they happen. --Skenmy(t•c•w) 21:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

London
I will be Tweeting all day on my Twitter - please update the story if you can! --Skenmy(t•c•w) 19:48, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

There were 500 at any one time! 800 total protesting, I headcounted some photos and asked around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.142.90 (talk) 22:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking at the pictures and around the messageboards associated with Anonymous, I'd agree that 500 is a fair number. Fallen-Griever 23:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I was there, I don't think 500 protesters were. I'd suggest that it is very difficult to come up with anything meaningful but I'd say 500 is unrealistic. Adambro 23:23, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * There were definitely well over 500 - I estimated there, more like 600 - but less at the second location.84.65.107.183

The BBC said that the city of London police said 200. news.com says there were 500 there http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9869003-7.html --172.189.102.34 01:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Sydney, Australia
I added it from an article a new user started: Wazza. I left a note on his talk page as it appears to be original reporting. I am awaiting that confirmation. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 04:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, It is OR. Thanks. Wazza 04:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, Thank You. I am glad you decided to give us your report :-) DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 04:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Melbourne, Australia
Just found this Melbourne Protest on the net, its about 40 mins. Has a lot of hightlights, is it worth adding? http://annonmelb.blip.tv/

Los Angeles
I'll try to keep things updated on my twitter as well. -- IlyaHaykinson 10:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Breaking
Please leave breaking on the article until further notice. Updates will be happening for a very long period. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 05:23, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Uploading images to commons
Just a quick note to some of the newer users. When uploading to commons Bawolff ☺☻ 08:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * State very clearly that it is you who took the picture
 * Add a description. It should say something like Pictures of the Feb 10 2008 anti-scientolgist rally in (potentially also linking to wikinews
 * Fill in other fields as apropriate
 * Add apropriate categories.
 * upload the biggest version of the image you can. The servers will automatically shrink it to an apropriate size for viewing, and this allows people to get a big version if they want.

internet
I know that the internet isn't strictly a location but a lot of events related to the protests are happening on the internet, I hope no one minds if I cover it in this article as a location as it is sort of a location, just a virtual one. If you disagree with this you can obviously remove it. --Anonymous101 Talk RfA 14:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

POV
I have removed the part about Vienna as its POV is disputed and it needs to be republished. This version of the article has the report (as POV) to be improved but we can’t hold publication because of 1 part. Anonymous101 Talk RfA 16:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Disputed section
Disputed Section concerning Vienna - Moving here for disscusion,

On IRC I've asked someone to try and look into this in more detail. At best some officals got nervous it seems, which isn't to me suprising. ShakespeareFan00

Actual Disputed Section
Anonymous protesters faced threat of the police to be arrested for standing there quietly

Noon local time. A group of people (approx. 10-12) met in front of the Scientology Center in Capistrangasse in Vienna's 6th district. Peacefully and quiet did they watch the other people around the place, a bit apart from them: some police in uniform, and people with cameras taking pictures and filming them. A young person came to the protesters, and asked for information about what is going on. Very friendly one started to explain, why they are here. Most protesters were dressed in black suits, with red ties, most of them unmasked with bare faces and in their 20-ies, even without sunglasses. No weapons of course, no signs, no chanting, not even paroles, nothing. Pure best manners from top to toe, all the time from the protesters.

Then a fully masked person (just one eye free) came and handed out fliers to the protesters. The fliers did promote a website, which claims to be critical of Scientology, but true critics are suspicious about it being a fake critical website. (To tell more would create a wiki-war, and the correspondent does want to avoid that). Shortly after that, a man, accompanied by another one, both dressed in allday-suits, did read a note from a paper, which he called an official paper addressed to the protesters. He said, he is an official and from the governmental community and does order them to leave this place in five minutes, otherwise they be arrested. There was no reason for this, because everything was quiet, there was absolutely no disturbance. A protester asked the official, why he does not want the people to stand here and discuss something peacefully and the officer said, that the demonstration has not been announced at the offices and therefore they have to leave, because this is forbidden. The protester asked, what is forbidden? To stand there and talk with each others? This happened on the street, at a small place in front of the Scientology-building. The "official" said, there were fliers and this shows it is more than a normal meeting and threatened to arrest the person, who had asked. He then demanded her to show him her identity card, otherwise she'd have to come with him. She refused. There was no reason for that. No noise, no violence of course, no megaphones, no paroles, nothing, just some people standing there and talking with each other about Scientology.

The group decided to leave. They said, there was somebody, who did announce the event at the police, as is legally necessary, but that person did not show up, so the group did not have evidence that they had announced it correctly.

The group has decided, to continue to peacefully and legally inform society about the dangers of the Scientology-Organisation.

Vienna is the capital of Austria, a small country in the middle of Europe. Austria is part of the European Community.

Austria has a democratic constitution.

Please do not delete this article. If you have questions about it, ask them. Do not vandalize and do not restrict freedom of speech!

Order by timezone?
Should we order the protests by the timezone they are in so the article is appended to? --Brian McNeil / talk 17:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Humor
http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/index.php?itemid=3013 :( ShakespeareFan00 17:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Shankbone photos from NYC
I will have them uploaded in the next hour to two hours. I'm going up to my office where the upload rate will be faster. Unfortunately, they won't be photoshopped, so you will all see what a crap photographer I truly am. --David Shankbone 18:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

partyvan.info protest news
Lots of information here http://partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology/Raid_Archive/2008-02-10 18:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Minneapolis
The Minneapolis section POV is far from neutral. There should be no "our side". 99.233.74.73 19:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Actual numbers should be: Largest headcount-75 with an estimated peak attendance of 90-100.

Manchester
The Manchester Org was not closed. People were coming and going frequently and the door was not locked. --81.99.58.0 20:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It was closed by the end of the protest, then, although I saw no one going in nor out all day. Changed the article anyway. Fallen-Griever 20:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Re. the report that the Manchester Org was closed: Not exactly true. I was visting the Manchester org on the sunday afternoon and the doors were open to the public all day. Infact I chatted for a while with some members of the large and lively protest group who were quite friendly and amicable. On the afternoon of the protest, activities within the org continued with courses still being followed as normal with no disruption. The demo seemed to finish at around 4.00pm or maybe slightly earlier). Infact I popped out to buy some chocolate from Sainsbury's on the corner and had no problem re-entering the org. As for the org being closed by the end of the protest...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.195.239.163 (talk) 13:22, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Additional point - Anons were told by the police to vacate the area by 3PM to avoid clashing with people leaving the Manchester United vs. Manchester City football match. Feel this should be noted. Apologies if I may have accidentally reverted your edit - we were replying at the same time. --81.99.58.0 20:13, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought that might have had something to do with it but I wasn't sure. Side note: United played crap... Fallen-Griever 20:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Plymouth
Why is there no mention of the Plymouth Demonstration? It was very significant considering that it took 6 days to organise and that the area being picketed was very small with a large amount of people.

Direct questions to anonuk12345678@yahoo.co.uk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.121.106 (talk) 20:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Milwaukee raid info
I suck at the wiki markup, but here's some info and pics from the raid in Milwaukee

United States: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
In temperatures ranging from 0F to -4F, without windchill, several members of Anon. showed up. The group ranged from 10 to 25+, with public response (as they were driving by in their heated cars) mostly positive. Several scifags noticed us, and one flipped us the bird. We were polite and acted in accordance to the Code. Photos: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Anon1.jpg

More at http://www.flickr.com/photos/23675982@N04/

Toronto
What I added to the article was from behing there my self, and my own, rough head count. I was there all day. That was the only altercation with police I seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rz350 (talk • contribs) 00:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the guy with the gun wasn't punished at all, but the cop was pissed at him, at least, thats what someone else who was there told me. The cops were also laughing at our some of our antics, pretty good time for all 76.69.86.87 03:17, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Order of locations needs attention
What's going on with the order on this page? Someone above suggested doing it by timezone, but I think this is not very practical. I think it should either be alphabetical by country and then city, or just city. Dar-Ape 21:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Timezone makes more sense, to me, because the ones in later timezones were probably affected by the earlier ones, and when I was looking through the page I was actually surprised it wasn't that way. Cheyinka 21:26, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just do it by City. It's visually the easiest and most obvious.  One Person should put a "Hold On" message on the page to avoid edit conflicts and let us know who you are and when you are done.  --David Shankbone 21:28, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Surely the cities should be grouped by continent? FredTheDeadHead 21:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * hmmm... maybe alphabetical by continent then city? It would create good broad regional divisions; country might be too specific.  Dar-Ape 21:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. Aside from the fact that these are all large, well-known cities and the article says "worldwide" already, I also think this fits in the category of "Urban culture" and the cities taking place in that are more important than the continents.  --David Shankbone 22:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Show me the money
Where does this "250" come from? Because it looks like partisan wishful thinking to me. The reliable source says 14 countries and dozens of churches. That sounds about right and is a long way from 250. --JustaHulk 21:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

ED info
http://www. encyclopediadramatica.com/Project_Chanology_iRL_Raids_Latest_News 00:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Irritated
The more Scientology/Anonymous articles I see on Wikinews the more irritated I get. This is the first newsworthy one I have seen, but it's no more well written than any of the others. These articles treat Anonymous as a serious, establishes, well-recognised Internet presence when it's really just 4chan; they generally omit any Scientologist side of the story. The only reason these articles exist is because the Internet is the Internet and people who exist in one community will invariably exist in another; hence, Anonymous writes Wikinews. --78.151.109.1 01:15, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Whether you like it or not, a worldwide protest involving over 9000 (... haha, "it's OVER NINE THOUSAND") people is a major news story. To say otherwise is ridiculous. If you're worried about POV in the article then suggest changes or make them yourself - there have been problems with POV in this article, that is true, but those problems can be eliminated. Fallen-Griever 10:40, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I would think the fact that they managed to get this many people to protest (That is no small task), shows they are a serious organization. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The article is still very POV; I saw an occurrence of "Scientology thugs", which I removed. It's also overly long; There are photo galleries with over 24 photos, and the article should be summarized into something shorter. 70.79.113.3 02:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably not half as irritated as these people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CIMG0317.JPG LamontCranston 04:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You obviously skim-read my comment; I said this was a newsworthy article. --78.151.109.1 15:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Vienna...
Seems there may be more to this than first thought..

Anyone tried contacting: or to confirm that the protest was actually asked to disperse?
 * http://www.wien.gv.at/english/pid/auslandsjournalisten/
 * http://www.bundespolizei.gv.at/wien/impressum.asp (Google Translation: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bundespolizei.gv.at%2Fwien%2Fimpressum.asp&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8])

Another Wikinews contributor suggestd an enquiry (which I've modified slightly) along the line of: "Dear Sir or Madam, my name is [Name] and I am a freelance reporter from the English Wikinews who is currently undertaking research further to a recent claim that police officers/state officals in Vienna dispersed a recent protest conducted by the Internet group "Anonymous" against the Church of Scientology within the city. Are you able to provide any kind of official response or statement concerning this?"

I am no expert on how Austrian agencies work, so it might need someone familiar with that region to handle the enquiry.

Public orders law in relation to demonstrations in Austria seems to be discussed on this link : http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fno-racism.net%2Farticle%2F1066%2F&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 It may be relevant.

62.56.64.224 01:39, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

More pictures
Someone just sent a bunch of pictures from one of these protests to the OTRS photo submission queue. I have put them on commons. See my contribs there. --Raul654 01:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What country and city? DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 01:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Plymouth, UK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.199.38 (talk) 02:09, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Also on OTRS we have submissions from the London and New Orleans protests. I have uploaded the New Orleans pictures. The London set didn't have a license, so I wrote them asking for one. 76.99.199.38 02:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

...And Austin, Tx. 76.99.199.38 07:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * linky? Bawolff ☺☻ 08:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Adelaide, Australia
There's a broken link or two in the Adelaide, Australia section. --199.79.10.117 13:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The first video link (adelraid) should be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rEeS4fshtk (I think this is the video it is supposed to link to)

Adelaide has its own dedicated site with gallery of all the pictures of the event: http://www.anonsa.org/v/10-02-08/UserPics - Feb10 Gallery. http://www.anonsa.org/v/Mar15Protest/UserMedia - Mar15 Gallery.

Any other pics/audio/video that Adelaide Anon have can be submitted to the site by registering > clicking media gallery > Clicking the down arrow under the search > clicking My Album > Clicking the down arrow again > Clicking Add Items - David (AnonSA) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.26.122.8 (talk) 03:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Too late for more photos?
I just got permission from this guy on Flickr to use his photos of the Dallas protest. Is it okay to upload them and put them on here, even though it's already been 24 hours? ~Planoneck~ 13:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What the heck, go ahead. --  Zanimum 15:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Anonymous as correspondent
I noticed that the Edinburgh, Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Chicago sections all credit Anonymous as correspondents for Wikinews. (Do not confuse with Anonymous101). This seems to me to be an unacceptable conflict of interest to have the purported organizer of the protest report on their own protest. --SVTCobra 14:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's neutral, as far as I can tell. I read it as an anonymous contributor, not the actual group itself. --Skenmy(t•c•w) 14:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That doesn't really matter ... would you have members of SeaOrg add their own sections? I warned against this at User talk:Skenmy/APC. You cannot rely on someone with that much of a COI. Even if the language is neutral, it calls into question the factual claims. --SVTCobra 14:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The whole point of people being able to freely edit the piece is that people such as yourself can remove anything which might be considered "non-neutral". If you're so worried about it, make it so only members can edit the piece or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.79.9 (talk) 14:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand Cobra's concerns, but the last comment hit the nail on the head: we are here as news "anyone can write" so we have to accept that people with COIs may attempt to write news.  Wikipedia has the same issue.  The only response is focus on the content, not the contributors.  There is no way we can assure that contributors don't have a COI. For now, we have to just work with it.  Anonymous contributors are welcome (though it would be nicer if your registered). --David Shankbone 15:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is important to differentiate between anononymous contributors — people who do not have user accounts — and Anonymous — people who are members of the group — and I'll include people who were active participants in the protest. We cannot accept contributions from the latter group, though, like David says, it is hard to know who they unless they declare themselves. If on the other hand they are not Anonymous, and just anon users, we should think of a less confusing way to indicate that in the article. (Why couldn't the group just have picked a different name, like Unknown?) --SVTCobra 17:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They're called that because of the way the *Chans often force people on the /i/nvasion boards to be Anonymous. Also, putting a name is looked down upon as "name-fagging", so Anonymous stuck. Fallen-Griever - (talk) 14:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

A Note of Congratulations to Those Involved With This Article
You should all take a moment to pat yourselves on the back. This was a very interesting "First" (as far as I know) for Wikinews, and shows how citizen journalism can fill niches and holes that the MSM leaves (I had trouble for awhile finding good news articles that gave an overview). But also for the amount of coordination this article took amongst correspondents both seasoned and new. This is a very comprehensive view of the events that took place, an excellent piece of photo-journalism especially. Congratulations to the many hands that came together to create this piece of work. --David Shankbone 01:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Typo
I believe that 'Dianetrics and Scientology Life Improvement Centre' needs to be changed to 'Dianetics and Scientology Life Improvement Centre'. --Credema 05:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Reorder alphabetically by names of cities
I agree with from the above section Order of locations needs attention. Now that this article has been semi-protected, it should be reordered alphabetically by name of city. Cirt 19:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm doing it right now. Bjweeks - (talk) 21:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Bjweeks - (talk) 22:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks! Looks much better!  Cirt - (talk) 05:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Todo
Bjweeks - (talk) 06:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Cleanup image and video links
 * Write prose for the missing cities based on sources
 * Further cleanup the image galleries
 * Check the status of every image in the article
 * Try to get free use images for the cities we are missing
 * Copy edit all prose
 * Probably should not write any more prose, and just leave the article as is, as it was on the end of the date it was published. The other minor fixes would be fine though.  Cirt - (talk) 06:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Good point Bjweeks - (talk) 06:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Remove Correspondents From Cities With No Prose?
Seems rather pointless having them their if they haven't written anything on what happened. Then again, I suppose photos are still a contribution. I dunno, just putting it out there. Fallen-Griever - (talk) 14:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd favor leaving it as the article appeared on that day. Cirt - (talk) 17:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason to remove and agree with Cirt. --David Shankbone - (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Numbers of the protests as reported in secondary news sources
Project Chanology protests, February 10 2008

Check it out. Cirt - (talk) 05:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Commons
Please replace: -- Cecil (talk) 14:40, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:DSC01645.jpg to Image:Scientology protest in Seattle.jpg
 * Image:DSC01663.jpg to Image:Seattle Scientology Protest 2.jpg
 * Image:DSC01671.jpg to Image:Seattle Scientology Protest 1.jpg
 * Image:DSC01673.jpg to Image:Seattle Scientology Protest 3.jpg
 * ✅ confirmed to be identical. But what about Image:DSC016642.jpg? --SVTCobra 15:06, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems that one was not yet renamed. I've requested it now and as soon as the bot has done it somebody will come here and make a note. -- Cecil (talk) 15:57, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Please replace Image:DSC016642.jpg with Image:Seattle Scientology Protest 4.jpg. Thanks, Finnrind (talk) 18:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ In future please use editprotected to highlight requests to change archived articles. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, will do. Finnrind (talk) 19:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

FA Candidate
Just because. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:10, 9 September 2013 (UTC)