Talk:Yellow Sheep River develops €123 Linux based computer

Comments in the Source section?
Revisions since 13:49, 22 March 2006 by 80.171.55.138 add these comments in the source section of the article:


 * Regarding Skype for Internettelephony on this System. I doubt it, Skype is binary and for Wintels (x86) only, sure some Linuxdistro may contain this, but only if it runs on x86. Since this is a whole different architecture based on Godson-II, which in turn is something like MIPS, it won't run. Like Macromedia Flash, Adobe Acrobat and anything else which is only available as binary for Linux-i386. Well, the recent chinese ban of non-governmental VOIP comes to mind also. So, no Skype.

Since they seemed out-of-place for the source section, and weren't coherent enough to be part of the article, I rolled-back the article and placed the copy here. Karen 21:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry for misplacing this, sorry for my "incoherentness", English is not my native language and this was my first try at something which is wikilike. What i wanted to say is: This system is using a central processing unit which is different from the ones found in common systems. Which means it is not able to execute programs which are available for them. The fact that it runs Linux does not mean that it runs all applications which are available for Linux-Distributions which do run on common hardware. Since the Skype application is "closed-source", which means you don't have the possibility to recompile it from the sourcecode to make it understandable for your specific hardware architecture, i.e. produce executable object code which could be run by some Godson-processor, which is some MIPS derivative, it just won't run. Except by means of emulation, which is unlikely for a system with specifications that low. Or by Skype itself by releasing a Skype-Client for that specific architecture, which they choose not to do so far. Got me?

You make a good point - how is Skype included when it must be recompiled from closed-source? Which news source was incorrect or mis-quoted? The article is somewhat technical and not entirely well organized. Your comments are certainly welcome, especally here in the talk section. When editing a story to add or update facts, be sure to edit the right section (you added your comments into the "Sources" section, not the story. Use the "edit this page" link at the top to edit the entire page instead of just a small section.

I'll see if I can improve upon the article, and include what you've stated. Please forgive me if I seemed too critical of your additions and comments. Always feel free to talk about articles in the talk section and post information here that someone can add to the article. If you feel comfortable editing the article directly, the more practice you have, the better you will be. Thank you very much for your coments and response. Karen 20:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite based on comments regarding Skype
I did my best to make it clear that the list of possible applications for the computer was speculation by a writer at the CeBit site. I tried to include a more balanced perspective and include more facts. Karen 22:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I disagree. We have no proof that Skype hasn't ported their application to the Godson. Since we don't have evidence either way, we shouldn't be speculating, either. Let's just drop the whole Skype thing. irid:t 22:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The Skype site doesn't indicate they have a port. The speculation isn't that there is no port, but that there is and that speculation was made by the CeBit site, listed as a featured application, and indicated that it wasn't yet available. If you don't want speculation, remove the whole list of featured applications reported by CeBit - not just the Skype application. Karen 23:33, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

strong doubts about Skype and more
nexus7 03:10, 24 March 2006 (UTC) O.K. I created myself an account just to not pop up here with some anonymous IP anymore. There is more in this Article than the (un)availability of Skype which is puzzling me. At first i came across this International Herald Tribune / Rural laptop to cost $187, with Linux which is also mentioned from WikiPedia / LongMeng I found that rather interesting, but all the entries in various BLOGS or other Newssites brought no further facts to me. Consistent is that nowhere the resolution, size and technology in which the display would be made is mentioned. Then i learned to know about the Municator which is mentioned here, don't know exactly where, when and how anymore, could be it was this article. Did much searching elsewhere also. So we have rather similar gadgets in technical specifications, be it their dimensions, weight and architecture. I have to ask myself: Maybe there is no "Laptop", but just an ultraportable system which is meant to be hooked up to a TV-Set when no VGA-Screen is available? The Municator has a TV-Out (S-Video). It has also a "Factory Option" for Li-Ion Accumulators. And this Municator is just the same thing as that so called "laptop", marketed by different companies for different countries (if so at all?)? Then there is the nebulosity about the speed compared to a Pentium3. This ranges from being equivalent to it from 500 MHz to 1 Ghz, which i doubt out of personal experience, because the Mipsbased Systems i have ocassionally worked with in the past, always outperformed Intel clock for clock (some 2nd-Hand SGIs via Ebay). So, what is meant by that "speed", is the floatingpoint unit lacking, like with some early AMD-K5/K6, and even actual Via C3 and C7 cpus? That would suck, since i remember that made antialising for fonts slow, not only measurable slow, but really noticable slow. Up to the point where you disabled that if you could and lived with ugly looking letters on the screen. I tried to find out more about this, and even found, but couldn't understand it because it was all chinese, and the connection to which exactly has been compared against what was lost to me, you'd find that almost instantly when you search for Godson 2c in Google or Baidu It would be nice if someone who understands chinese and SPECint/SPECfp could further verify this. Another question is, what exactly are they meaning by 400/800MHz? Is that a reference to the external/internal clock like in some doubleclocked 486 DX/2? Or are this just the different speedgrades in which the machines will be available in? Or are they using some modern equivalent to Intels Speedstep, AMDs cool&quiet/Longrun, Transmetas Longhaul, which clocks the cpu according to its load and depending on powerprofile (plugged into wallpowersocket or operating via battery)? Then there are the always upcoming disputes about intellectual property, i.e. Patents, which Mips Technologies Inc. has for this CPU, and it is said the creators of Godson did not license it from Mips and violate it in some way, while its creators say it wouldn't matter, because it's realized internally in a very different way which does not break any patent. Part of that is in the Wikipedia Lexra,where the link at the bottom from Jonah Probell is very interesting which holds another link to a short interview. China-made chips infringe on no foreign intellectual property: science academy Others i found elsewhere Godson-2 Microprocessor Is China's Great Leap Forward, Says In-Stat's Microprocessor Report, US-Patent-Office with said patent,Slashdot- China Releases 2nd generation MIPS Chip So why am i making such a fuss about this at all? Because it seemed like the Municator would be sold not only in China. I generally like OpenSource Software und use no Windows anymore. Imagine what this system could be used for when you don't need or want closed source? In opposition to buying used Sun Microsystems Sparc-, Silicon Graphics-, Digital/Compaq-Alpha-, Hewlett-Packard PA-Risc-, older Macintoshsystems which can break down any time and often need special parts and periphery, are loud, big and powerhungry, i could have something which fulfills my needs perfectly, is small, silent, maybe even relatively fast, and i can plug in standard periphery via USB 2.0. Also € 123 would be unbelievably cheap. In short, for some it would be the "Killermachine". I'd buy it instantly if i could. O.K. That have been my 2 cents to this, so far...keep up the good work ;-)

some more interesting articles...
nexus7 04:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)I found a few more interesting articles which may shed some more light onto what is at the heart of this system. Analysis: China's Godson-2 processor takes center stage and China’s Emerging Microprocessors According to the information therein, I speculate that this Godson-2c-cpu is not fabricated in a 0,18µ process anymore like it is stated all over the web, instead they did a a so called "Die-shrink" to 0,13µ or at least 0,15µ. Which makes a wholly new game. Less Watts used, higher clocks possible, less heat wasted, more chips per wafer, cheaper. For the more technically inclined, more about the used Northbridge is here Marvell and here Marvells Press Release about it, which sounds ok. The used Southbridge is a VIA VT82C686B, which sounds not so cool, because especially this part is infamous for having caused all sorts of trouble in regular pcs equipped with it. I hope they solved them.

Beat until well blended
It would be nice to take one of these computers and install it under the seat of your car for a variety of purposes. Although I don't work in the computing or electronic manufacturing field, I find all this fascinating. This story in particular is a good example of how nebulous the information about any particular product development actually is. Because of the comments that were being left in edits on the story (which seemed to be in good-faith but were removed as if they were the product of vandalism), I tried to verify the sources (like real journalists do). I was able to attribute the list of applications that were possibly available for the Municator to CeBit's site. It's fairly certain that Red Office is running on it, however CeBit's mention of Skype as a possible application seems less credible at this time - just checking Skype's web page casts enough reasonable doubt to mention it's not yet available. I think the Chinese view that particular application as potentially competitive with their own telephone companies and government standards. Beyond that detail, please feel free to add more sources, copy-edits, and facts to this or any story here on Wikinews. At least this story has been beaten into better shape with all our recent hammering. Karen 12:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Contacting Skype
Has anyone attempted to contact Skype to see if a port exists? Their press contact number appears to be +44.1273.728331. --Cspurrier 15:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

No, but I did check their website's download section's FAQ for Linux which was quoted for this article:


 * What hardware platforms is Skype for Linux available on?


 * Currently, only i386-32. If you have a platform that you'd like to use Skype for Linux on but can't now, come say it in the forum!

I checked the searchable forum, and even browsed it manually.

The person who added the comments in the sources section and the web site for Skype both conflict with CeBit's assertion. CeBit's video site says that the Municator "does all the basic things most people need, like &hellip; skype," and because of the language of their statement isn't very strong ( does &hellip; like ), I simply reported what the CeBit source says and what Skype says. Since then, no additional comments have been posted into the article disagreeing with it. Ironiridis has been the only one to object to the re-write, stating it my additions are speculation. With no supportive evidence to the contrary and knowing that I've only reported my findings and did no speculation on my own, I reverted his removal of my reported findings. I maintain on my talk page in the section marked "Neutral Point of View versus Censorship of Information" that I belive removing information from the article which reports alternate points of view is actually moving the article further from having a neutral point of view by omission. Maybe I'm too lazy to pick up an international phone card and call these people at Skype (or even better, Chief Knowledge Officer (CKO) of Yellowsheepriver Municator Inc., Philip K F HUI, PhD in China), but I think the article as it is now is truthful to the extent that information is reasonably obtainable. Any new facts which change the current position of the article, should they come to light, are certainly welcome. Karen 22:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Shame on me...
nexus7 06:00, 25 March 2006 (UTC)After finally having seen the Cebitvideo about the Municator myself (with Mplayer, btw.), i can only say that they indeed had a betaversion of Skype running on the screen for a short time. So, either Skype is porting it, or they have a deal which gives them access to the sources. Most of it has been boring, parts were interesting, especially where the naked mainboards have been shown. They had at least two different versions on display. The one which was shown most of the time had a Realtek as Networkingchip on it, couldn't make out exactly which version because it was too blurry, even in singleframe mode, looked mostly like some member of the Realtek 8139x line. Couldn't make out which exact soundchip they use, neither the Radeon7000-M(obility) was to be seen. Also it had two very small handsoldered wires running from the southbridge to another part of the board, which is an indicator for a prototype(handsoldered wires are incompatible with economically and fast production by automated production streets). Another board which was running had a totally different layout, used standard DDR-DIMMS instead of the smaller formfactor SO-DIMM and had a normal pci-slot. What else? The Redoffice didn't open some documents, gave an errorbox with stop sign and message in chinese. On the system connected to the Flatscreen-TV undoubtedly IceWM running as X window manager with some custommade menu/shellsystem layered over that was recognizable. On the other system connected to the beamer some other WM ran, which i have never seen so far, but it looked better. The menu featured another application for VOIP which can be seen at gnomemeeting.org. Seems that they are not yet ready for "Prime Time", but with an opensource based platform that can change really fast, depending on the manpower and knowledge they have it's a matter of weeks. As was stated a few times in the cebitvideo they indeed intend to sell this not only for the domestic chinese market, but internationally also. If they do so, they indeed have the most economically offer, at least for now, like it's stated in the video. I hope so, because i really want o have this gadget, though i'd prefer to have it with NetBSD instead. I'll follow this closely, meanwhile waiting if they mail me back about availability for endusers in .de. As i gather more info about this, i'll try to complement all things Godson in the 'pedia ;-)

Karen 20:13, 25 March 2006 (UTC) Shame on&hellip;


 * Me, for not:


 * Watching the video - dialup access is my only mitigating factor.


 * Making the call - I haven't the resources at this time to be making international calls to verify sources.


 * Skype for not:
 * mentioned in forum or FAQ - about work being done for a Godson processor. They've been banned before in China, according to the Wikipedia article on Skype. You'd think they'd be proud about their business relationship with Yellowsheepriver Municator Inc. and post it as news or a press release.


 * Yellowsheepriver Municator Inc. for not:
 * posting more details and less marketing hype - about their product and its development. Considering the language barrier and need for marketing, that's partially understandable.


 * CeBit for not:
 * using stronger language - "does &hellip; including" instead of "does &hellip; like". CeBit's descriptive sentence listing activities and applications available on the Municator was a bit over-loaded.

My main motivation was to respond to the comments that kept being edited into the article, which one other admin had just dismissed as vandalism.

20:21, 25 March 2006 (UTC) I just updated the article to mention what Paul had reported above. Karen 20:21, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

sweep some misleading information
I am a chinese. Skype is not banned in China at all. Instead, I talk to my girlfriend(she works in a neighboring city) every night via the little blue cutee to save expenses on communication. VOIP is not banned indeed. In fact, there are several competing IM software in mainland china such as QQ, sina ppt, paopao etc. And the 2 major fix-phone telecommunication players in China, China NetComm and China Telecomm both provide VOIP service via their own property softwre.