User talk:Kasaalan

New stories
Thanks for engaging in debate about Saturday's article announcing the start of the ground assault on Gaza. Material for new articles about the Gaza conflict arises all the time.

I was interested by your link to an AP story about civilian casualties, as I my perception up to now has been that AP has published a number of pro-Israeli biased articles. I may change my view of AP.

Here is a source for a possible Wikinews story about white phosphorus: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5447590.ece

Goodness know when the Times published it: the dateline of December 5 cannot be right.

An interesting comment there: "Israel (and six other countries) declined to ratify the treaty's third protocol, which deals with incendiary weapons"

--InfantGorilla (talk) 11:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * They admit using phosphorus weapons, yet mainly claim it is limited to smoke bombs. The source at AP was actually taken from PCHR, that is why it is more accurate than usual. If you read fact sheets, weekly reports or statistics on Palestinian Center for Human Rights, the events might be more clear. They even have reports on child killings by IDF if you like to read. I don't know whether the western press don't report articles neutrally because of their bias, ignorance or unawareness. But if you cross reference the conflicting side's you get closer to the truth. They say "There are three sides to every story. Your side my side and the truth." everything2 article Kasaalan (talk) 10:29, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way I am not much familiar with WikiNews and since I mostly focus on wikipedia, whenever I came up with a good link, I can post them here, then you might convert them to news format or use them as a reference if you like.


 * Lately I work hard on Rachel Corrie article, and if you like you can also read the discussion page for further references. Kasaalan (talk) 10:39, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Will be glad to see your links, here, at water cooler Requested articles, or my talk page (though I only occasionally write new articles at Wikinews.)

The Rachel Corrie article is very interesting. The zone between Rafah and Egypt will be a sore point for a long time to come. It is certainly true that an encyclopedia allows for more considered, sober and comprehensive coverage than news.

Regarding balance on Israel-Palestine news coverage, I hope to start a public discussion on Wikinews shortly. It would also be good to see some Wikinews original reporting from Gaza, but I won't be traveling there to do it.

--InfantGorilla (talk) 14:46, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

For the latest casualties PCHR Press Releases are good, yet is it forbidden to mention casualties only in ITN or in wikinews generally.

Twelfth Day of Continuous IOF Attacks Against the Population of Gaza Date: 07 January 2009 Time: 11:30 GMT

83 Palestinians civilians were killed; half the victims were children and women. IOF committed a new war crime by shelling a school run by the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), killing 39 civilians including 13 children and five women. The number of victims has risen to 682, including 158 children, 41 women, and 6 medical personnel.

"'Investigations conducted by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) indicate that more than 90% of the Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip in the last three days have been unarmed civilians, including a large number of children. ... The entire Gaza Strip is now under IOF bombardment. In the last 24 hours, 83 Palestinian civilians were killed including 28 children, 8 women and one journalist. The IOF also shelled a school run by the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) in which 350 families from jabalia were sheltering, killing 39 civilian including 13 children, 5 women and 12 members of one family.'"

Source 1 Twelfth Day of Continuous IOF Attacks Against the Population of Gaza Palestinian Center for Human Rights

Source 2 Gaza civilian death toll rises steeply Guardian

Thanks for your advice I requested the article. I can request news from territories from wikipedia, yet they have no electricity or wire in Gaza, so I suspect if they can write an article anyhow. Kasaalan (talk) 15:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Phosphorus Bomb evidence photograph

Gaza victims' burns increase concern over phosphorus


 * Good photograph. Does it come from an agency or a Times stringer?


 * Your first 2 links tie in with this observation I made. I think the difficulty with posting civilian casualty figures at Wikinews is that not enough of us (including me) are putting in the effort to find, interpret and weigh the recent sources.  I hope and expect that it is not forbidden.


 * You mention Wikipedia ITN. Wikinews is completely independent of ITN: each has their own community and editorial policy.  I don't object strongly to the bland ITN entry, when the linked article w:2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict has so much detail.  At ITN, they claim it is not a news source, just a list of relevant encyclopedia links.


 * I am impressed that so much information is coming from Gaza with only satellite phones working.


 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 10:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I added high review for the article with comments, only thing missing is what israeli spoksmen say about the civillian casualties. Report published, thanks for the good work and help. Kasaalan (talk) 17:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Israel Safe House Shelling
Israel pulls out of Gaza leaving 110 dead

War in Gaza: Israel accused of killing 30 after shelling safe house

The United Nations has accused Israel of evacuating scores of Palestinians into a house in the suburbs of Gaza City, only to shell the property 24 hours later, killing some 30 people.

In a report published today on what it called "one of the gravest incidents" of the 14-day conflict, the UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) complained that the Israeli Defence Force then prevented medical teams from entering the area to evacuate the wounded, including young children.

The Israeli military said it was investigating the claim but had no knowledge of the incident.

''Citing "several testimonies" - but without identifying its sources - OCHA said that Israeli foot soldiers evacuated around 110 Palestinians into a house in Zeitun, south of Gaza City, on Sunday. Half of them were children.''

"Twenty-four hours later, Israeli forces shelled the home repeatedly, killing approximately 30," OCHA said. "Those who survived and were able walked two kilometres to Salah Ed Din road before being transported to the hospital in civilian vehicles. Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital."

Israel shelled Palestinians after evacuating them, UN says Killing of 30 people in house full of evacuees 'one of gravest incidents' since Gaza operations began

At least 30 people were killed in the Zeitoun district of Gaza after Israeli troops repeatedly shelled a house to which more than 100 Palestinians had been evacuated by the Israeli military, the UN said today.

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), said in a report it was "one of the gravest incidents since the beginning of operations" against Hamas militants in Gaza by the Israeli military on 27 December.

OCHA said the incident took place on 4 January, a day after Israel began its ground offensive in Gaza. According to testimonies gathered by the UN, Israeli soldiers evacuated about 110 Palestinians to a single-storey house in Zeitoun, south-east Gaza. The evacuees were instructed to stay indoors for their safety but 24 hours later the Israeli army shelled the house. About half the Palestinians sheltering in the house were children, OCHA said. The report also complains that the Israeli Defence Force prevented medical teams from entering the area to evacuate the wounded.

The OCHA report does not accuse Israel of a deliberate act but calls for an investigation. Responding to the report, an Israeli military spokeswoman, Avital Leibovich, told AFP news agency: "From initial checking, we don't have knowledge of this incident. We started an inquiry but we still don't know about it."

UN accusations are serious. Kasaalan (talk) 17:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

White Phosphorus Weapons
UN Briefing dodges question of White Phosphorus weapons in Gaza (RealPlayer file) Not sure on what it says.

Photo how the bombs spreads burning over streets

Israel admits phosphorus bombing in 2006 BBC

BBC link directly adressing the issue but in 2006.

Israel Probaganda
Propaganda war: trusting what we see Kasaalan (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2009 (UTC)