Wikinews:Water cooler/assistance/archives/2011/May

Please provide input, please!
I am attempting a Dispute resolution at Dispute resolution/Brian McNeil and Mattisse and I am soliciting your input as to the problem. I urge you to give feedback. Soliciting input is the next step in the Dispute resolution process. Please do! Meanwhile, I will stop writing and copy editing articles while I await an outcome. Thanks to any and all who are willing to help sort this out. Regards, Mattisse (talk) 01:39, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, filing a Dispute resolution request, as you have done, is step five of the process; you'd already skipped step three. (Oops.  Well, these things happen.)  In any case, the request is a request for input, so there's no need to post requests for input elsewhere.  Folks are aware of the request.


 * There is no need for you to cease contributing to the project while awaiting an "outcome". There isn't some cloud hanging over you, that needs to be cleared in order for you to function on the project.  --Pi zero (talk) 02:40, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What needs to happen is the above-verbatim-post by Mattisse needs to stop being posted to tens of different user talk pages and project pages on this website. That is disruptive. -- Cirt (talk) 02:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * As I explained to User talk:Microchip08 and others, I sent out exactly ten messages (not tens) because I thought that Wikinews:Dispute resolution said to do at Step three: Ask the community for help using a template. As soon as User:Kayau  notified me I stopped immediately. Then User talk:Microchip08 also  brought it to my attention.   I had already  desisted immediately and I apologized to him. After I posted to User talk:Microchip08 that I had stopped and apologized, you posted under my post on his page.


 * I responded immediately to your post, posted under my apologetic reply to him. I apologized to you. and explained that I had stopped. Why are you bringing this up now, when I stopped immediately upon being notified, before my apologetic post to you and before your post to User talk:Microchip08,  and I have apologize to all.  I explained that apparently I misunderstood the directions and I am sorry? What is it you are asking now?


 * What is it you want to be done now? Should I be punished for my misunderstanding that I rectified as quickly as I could? And for which I have apologized? Please advise.  Mattisse (talk) 03:33, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You can take a step back and stop posting repeatedly all over the project to multiple pages about this issue. -- Cirt (talk) 03:48, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I already have as explained above to you. I was told to post here by User talk:Microchip08. I am between a rock and a hard place; posting where I am directed turns out not to be correct.  In any event,  inaccuracy and the creation of misperception  should be pointed out. Else it will be used against me. This is a good example of the kind of thing that someone will use as "evidence", so all I am doing is asking you to be accurate. It would be nice if you corrected the record. Regards, Mattisse (talk) 04:13, 6 May 2011 (UTC) (amended Mattisse (talk) 13:32, 6 May 2011 (UTC))

I do have an advice here: Leave Wikinews for a period of time, after which you feel convenient to participate in the Newsroom. Cheers, Gryllida 04:38, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Dear Mattisse, per, I find that some of the following takes place:
 * You find yourself repeatedly assuming bad faith.
 * You are stressed to the point that it affects your editing.
 * You need time to relax and think, so that when you do return to Wikinews, you'll hopefully be refreshed.
 * You're about to give up editing.
 * You become disillusioned with the project.
 * (And probably also some other real life matters I am unaware of.)
 * I agree with this advice by Gryllida, and yet the continued postings by seems to show an inability to do so. -- Cirt (talk) 13:44, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * To Cirt. I have made one post since Gryllida suggested I leave wikinews.  I made a closing explanatory statement here. That is not "continued postings". This is my second to correct your tendency to misrepresent my behavior. Gryllida did not say I should not make any posts ever again. Please assume good faith and try not to exaggerate my failings. Again, this kind of misrepresentation has been used in the past against me, so I feel I must correct your statement of "continued postings".   Regards,  Mattisse (talk) 14:01, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There is simply no need to continue posting here. This is indeed another example of such repeated behavior. -- Cirt (talk) 14:15, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Gryllida and the community
Thank you, Gryllida, for your offer on my talk to use chat but I don't know how to use it very well. I have tried the wikinews and the wikinews-workshop chats but have not found them helpful. I don't think my problems will be resolved through those chats. I may be wrong, but I get the idea that almost all contributors here at wikinews are much younger and I am too old to understand the culture here.


 * I wrote this to Bawolff and I will summarize it here. Perhaps it will explain why I reacted to Brian McNeil's patronizing  behavior and insults to me.
 * I am not a child as Brian McNeil seems to think. I have a Ph.D. and have practiced my profession for over 30 years: forensic psychology. To be treated like a child who doesn't recognize a reference to the Wizard of Oz is humiliating. And because I am not British, I do not think I should  be required to use British expressions or watch a British TV show as Brian said I should so that I can understand his comments and  his "witticisms".  I thought this site was open to other nationalities as well, and that an editor was not required to belong to a subculture to edit here.  Sadly, it appears that this is not the case. All I wanted to do was write and edit articles.

With regrets, Mattisse (talk) 13:32, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Again, I did not realize that I was spamming and stopped the instant I was notified. I wish that others had assumed some good faith to me, as I was only trying to understand and work with the project. I apologize to all for my unforgivable mistakes.
 * When and if the dispute is resolved, I will consider returning to copy editing and writing articles again. Until then, I will check my talk page, but I will no longer contribute to article building, as that is what got me into trouble in the first place.

Mattisse, You are indeed not the only side to blame for what happened. Many contributors are indeed younger than that. While some of your advice to some them is appropriate (and at times relevant!), it also is important to deliver it in a manner which does not require them to apologize or feel inferior. Things can be done wrongly, people can be notified, and there is not a demand to have everybody acknowledge their errors. Work toward agreement is what we try to do in the first place. Discussing people can appropriate, but pointing out each mistake isn't exactly the right way to go. This is what may have set off a few contributors and caused their intense reaction, some of which went on-wiki.

The Wikinews means of communication are different from other wikis. It does take a while to understand how they work. However we have to realise that your level of education does not allow you to get out of the etiquette conception Wikinews has, and you still have to stay respectful to other members of the community even if you think they are not. This is vital for Wikinews to survive, so that people can work together and get work done.

Brian McNeil did agree to step out at his own talk page. He agreed to calm down and keep it balanced on his side. While it does not mean that any further misunderstandings are something we magically delete, I hope that this puts end to the dispute, and we can call it "resolved".

I do hope that you enjoy your time at whatever you devote your time to, if you leave, and that you find it comfortable to return to Wikinews later on, when you have the desire to actively participate in the news crafting process itself. Gryllida 15:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

University of Wollongong
I see that some students from the University of Wollongong, NSW, Australia, are writing articles on WN for a class assignment. Excellent! If you see a student struggling with, say, the style guide, let's all remember to help him/her out :)  — fetch · comms  21:57, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent! I'd be glad to help them out. アンパロ Io ti odio! 22:02, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Wondering about User:KaySee. --Pi zero (talk) 06:09, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Good luck. I'd also like to request that we be extra-gentle with these users, we need to create a good impression. Tempodivalse [talk]  18:33, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Another possible: User:Jd977. --Pi zero (talk) 12:41, 2 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Declared UoW student: User:Brittany (two articles added to WN:UoW 2011 student contributions)
 * Declared 'citizen and student journalist': User:Law264
 * Declared UoW student: User:Meob3471354
 * --Pi zero (talk) 05:21, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Declared UoW student: User:Clrstockbridge
 * --Pi zero (talk) 20:24, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Possible; in fact, I'd say probable: Dalia098. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 12:30, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Jd977 possible. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 19:59, 8 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Prof Blackall has asked me if it might be possible to do a brief Skype session during a lecture. I'm happy to have an M 150 to cope with the timezone difference. However, is there anyone else closer who could participate? --Brian McNeil / talk 20:31, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Change article title
I just wrote an article Four killed in anti-Israeli demonstrations on Syrian border. I need to change the title because the death toll has risen to 13. How do I do this? --Ravpapa (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You should see a small arrow, pointing down, just before the search box at the top of the page. If you've a Move option, you can rename the page. If your account is really new, you might not be able to do this. Anyway, someone should do the move as part of the peer review process. --Brian McNeil / talk 17:29, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, got that straightened out. Here is another question. The article actually has two sources, Israeli television and Israeli radio. Both are part of the Israel Broadcast Authority and are available through the same website (cited). However, they are really two independent news sources, each with its own news staff and sources. How do I indicate that there are two sources to the story (other than citing this in text)? If you look at the story, you will see the problem. Thanks --Ravpapa (talk) 18:04, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * A non-Israeli source would be much preferred. That they're both part of the Israel Broadcast Authority seriously brings into doubt their neutrality and independence. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

how to edit my user profile
I am a member of UOW and wish to change my user profile to acknowledge that so i was wondering how you go about editing your user info??
 * I have added an unsigned template to your comment here; where your username appears in red, you can click on that to start editing your userpage. To make further updates, go back to the page and use the Edit link at the top. --Brian McNeil / talk 07:04, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Prepared story on May 21, 2011
With all the media attention on the Rapture happening on May 21, 2011 I was surprised to see that there was no prepared article. I was bold and started one at Story preparation/May 21, 2011 passes without ill effect. I encourage all editors to contribute to it and help it grow. Please do not use the prepared article if the Rapture actually does happen. --Dialh (talk) 03:56, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * w:WP:DENY? — μchip08 09:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

story on Pope's call to ISS
Hello. I'm new here, and I just wrote my first article on the Pope's call to the ISS. I tried my best to follow your guidelines, including the style guide, but I was confused the various requirements you have regarding the "cosmetic" aspects of the article. Can someone take a look at the article and help me figure out what else I need to do? I look forward to working with you. Ragettho (talk) 14:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

oops! I forgot to provide a link. =P Here ya go! Pope speaks with astronauts in orbit for first time Ragettho (talk) 15:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not checked if anyone else has tweaked that to help you, but at a quick glance it looks pretty well-polished. --Brian McNeil / talk 17:27, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I added the infobox and wikilinks. I didn't really bother to check much else, though. DEN  DODGE  17:30, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've not the peace 'n' quiet to do a full, careful review; but, it's a pass on style at the moment. --Brian McNeil / talk 17:37, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Fantastic. Just out of curiosity, how does one decide which categories to add to an article? Ragettho (talk) 02:01, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if a category exists and is relevant, add it. That would include categories for people (e.g. Gordon Brown) and places (e.g. United Kingdom) involved in the story, and general topics it covers (e.g. [Politics and conflicts, Science and technology). As a rule of thumb; if you think somebody interested in that category would be interested in the story, add it. Somebody else can fix your mess afterwards - it's a wiki! DEN  DODGE  19:55, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Nook story
Ok, so after successfully getting my previous story on the Pope published, I think I now have a better handle of how things work here. But I still need help! Please take a look at Barnes & Noble unveils new Nook... it seems that there is no image of the new Nook available on Wikimedia Commons, so can I just use a picture of the older Nook instead? Ragettho (talk) 22:26, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You could claim fair use and upload a photo from Barnes and Noble locally on Wikinews. --Brian McNeil / talk 13:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your advice, but someone else has already added a picture of the Nook logo, and I think that should suffice for now. In any case, the article has already been rejected for publication for the reason that it doesn't cover recent news. But I should make it clear that I think this action is ridiculous. The new Nook was released on Tuesday, and I wrote this article on the same day. An editor with the username "Blood Red Sandman" rejected the article because he couldn't read one of the source articles, but if he had checked two days earlier, then we wouldn't be having this problem. Besides, doesn't Wikinews pride itself in publishing content that has since been hidden by subscription publications?
 * I'm really not trying to bash Wikinews. (I promise) I admire its hopes to produce a freely-licensed publication that collects news stories from around the world, and I do think that most of the articles you publish are pretty good. At the same time, however, you all should recognize that there are many other publications that would happily accept the content that you either reject or simply don't have time to review. I, for example, could have easily written for my own blog, Yahoo Associated Content, or my local and college newspapers. And if you continue to adopt a restrictive attitude to your writers, then Wikinews is certainly going to fall much more behind these other publications. All the best, Ragettho (talk) 15:30, 28 May 2011 (UTC)