Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/archives/2020/June

Histogram for The situation of Bangladesh by COVID-19‎
mw:Extension:Graph

Sandbox "Syntax error"

Could someone possibly please make this work?

Tom Morris, Bawolff?

Thanks!!! --Gryllida (talk) 10:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --DannyS712 (talk) 13:21, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Are we talking about the graph module thing? Licensing concerns. :S --Pi zero (talk) 13:28, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, we are; the original module is at w:de:Modul:Graph and is part of the system of cross-wiki global templates and modules, and is allowed to be used here --DannyS712 (talk) 13:48, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * See https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/ShareAlike_compatibility - "For BY-SA 2.0, all future versions of BY-SA and all ports of BY-SA 2.0 or later are automatically compatible" - the CC-BY-SA 3.0 module can be copied here --DannyS712 (talk) 13:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * please restore the module --DannyS712 (talk) 13:53, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

See right below this page. Wikinews uses CC BY 2.5 •–• 13:53, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * My apologies, wrong paste: "You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License, or a Creative Commons iCommons license that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g. Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 Japan)." https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/legalcode - CC 3.0 is compatible with 2.5 --DannyS712 (talk) 14:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * DannyS712: CC BY 2.5 is not CC BY-SA*. •–• 17:36, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Well crud. The entire system of global templates and modules can't be used on wikinews I guess --DannyS712 (talk) 18:29, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

If we are not going to change the data, we can just use the canvas generated here, which can be tweaked if required. •–• 18:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * As you say: "The entire system of global templates and modules can't be used on wikinews I guess". Most Wikinewsies have also agreed with your overall commentary: "Well crud."  (Though I've been hoping we can seize the opportunity to build a much, much simpler tooling infrastructure with very few parts to it, which I've tried to do &mdash; developing it all here, so that the licenses allow it to be freely exported to other wikimedia sisters.) --Pi zero (talk) 19:23, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * See w:de:Wikipedia Diskussion:Lua/Modul/Graph - it may be possible to use the template here eventually --DannyS712 (talk) 19:29, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Yair rand agreed to relicence. Are there any other contributors? Gryllida (talk) 21:44, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I saw - I pinged 7 contributors that have contributed to the current version, so yes --DannyS712 (talk) 21:50, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * All contributors have agreed to relicense, and I recopied the module. I'm not sure what the code for the template should be though... please restore. --DannyS712 (talk) 17:48, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Relicensing Wikinews
Should we have a community discussion on relicensing this project per the above? Seems like the logistical problems of CC BY SA content from other WMF projects not being compatible with us is more pressing than any possible problems with CC BY content being accepted by third parties (which I think never happens). —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:45, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not a big problem. The additional restrictions on Wikipedian text are inappropriate for a news project.  And, btw, it's also highly desirable that Wikipedian text be lisence-incompatible, since it is written with very different goals and standards. --Pi zero (talk) 22:51, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There's no reason why it's desirable that any text can't be integrated into this project; that makes no sense. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Content of an Encyclopædia is in a tone that hardly suits the style required for the news, to begin with. •–• 00:12, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Just a side note that this question is not urgent; any review or development work that has been waiting for weeks, months, and years can be given attention, for at least an hour per day, before answering this. (I understood we have a number of contributors who seem to think that all discussions at water cooler have "high" priority; this is really not always the case.) Gryllida (talk) 00:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Besides style, Wikipedia articles also do not share our approach to neutrality or our approach to vetting/sourcing, which have profound consequences. My overall assessment is that any text generated in the context of Wikipedia should be written over from scratch for a news setting. --Pi zero (talk) 00:32, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Votes

 * The Wikinews licence is less restrictive than the one enwp uses. I've always been proud of that. BRS  (Talk)   (Contribs) 11:47, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Strong CC BY-SA is a copyleft license, forcing users to stick with the license like a chewing gum.  There is absolutely no good reason to adopt the CC BY-SA license. •–•  12:03, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Since we're taking a moment to formally declare positions, in addition to my earlier remarks I also agree wholehearted with BRS's remark above: . --Pi zero (talk) 15:47, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Mobile frontend
Following up User_talk:Jon_(WMF) just checking do we have consensus to disable minerva (this) entirely, and for mobile users replace it with the mobile-friendly Timeless skin ? The monobook or vector  skins are not that mobile friendly.

For those who do not have a mobile device, test on a small size of browser window, i.e. resize it to 400px width and 600px height and this is approximately what some mobile users will see. --Gryllida (talk) 07:02, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You could just go to en.m.wikinews.org in that case. •–• 07:59, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * perhaps you could please read the talk page of Jon, and this section, and somehow clear all of this up? I'm not up to speed on this. Thank you! Gryllida (talk) 10:18, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure i see the relation between User:Jon_(WMF)'s change to minerva's stylesheet and this section. I'd note, i think its unlikely that WMF will agree to change the default mobile skin to Timeless, even with consensus, for brand consistency reasons. There was a previous disagreement about using Timeless on frwiktionary and the end result is that WNF refused to switch the skin. Bawolff ☺☻ 18:06, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Even I did not realise, but here is a before and after link Jon left on phab. Search for "Thank you @Jdlrobson. I will have a look." It is right above that. •–• 18:09, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look nearly as bad in my browser as it does in that screenshot link. Bawolff ☺☻ 03:29, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

List of comments
None of the above looks optimised for mobile devices. I can't access how the old Minerva used to look -- but I tried to recreate it.
 * Proposed this change, initially (without seeing relevant discussions) I support it. --Gryllida (talk) 07:02, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I am deeply concerned about the unwarranted proposed changes. The mobile site was minimalistic -- just displayed the lede articles, not much.  I have some screenshots:
 * 1) timeless (right scroll) on mobile screen.  Ugly, horrible.  I oppose using this.
 * 2) monobook Oh dear lord!  Please no!  It is just not readable.
 * 3) vector It is not good for phones.  It has too much going on to distract the reader.
 * 4) Minerva -- after the changes Gosh no!  That does not look optimised for mobile devices.
 * this and this is roughly what I recall the mobile site used to look like. It was simple -- did not have much distraction -- something I liked when I read from a mobile device.

Timeless is not mobile-friendly. Minerva was. And it would be really good if we keep it that way. A strong oppose to timeless, or for new changes. could you please tell us what is responsible for the main page to look differently, and how that can be undone, for it to look like how it was before; I would greatly appreciate that. •–• 08:41, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Such an advanced answer from someone who uses mobile for more than a minute a day. What is your screen size? I've not seen Timeless scroll like that. Gryllida (talk) 10:55, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * In your browsers, if you do right-click, "Inspect"/"Inspect element" and click on the button left of "Element"...(see, on firefox, it might not be next to each other, but look for the icon), you can see things on a mobile screen -- you can set different dimensions of different phones. In the ss of timeless skin -- you can see on top, it is set to iPad.  For 320x568, see this. •–•  11:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * For the record, opened mobile frontend today morning and immediately went to timeless because I wanted to see the recent changes and they were not there. Gryllida (talk) 20:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Please see before and after here. Scroll down to the comment with timestamp "Fri, Jun 5, 9:01 PM". •–•  11:31, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
 * How is this related to 'recent changes'? Gryllida (talk) 10:17, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Never said it was. I had attempted to show the difference in the above comment, and it was about that. •–•  10:20, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Internal Error
Attention: users who are getting Internal Error when trying to access Special:RecentChanges (RC).

Why: You have a saved RC filter. It is a known issue on Phabricator (see T253098). Per "Majavah" on #mediawiki IRC channel, "since yesterday some watchlist settings cause it to crash". They also said "actually sometimes it affects other users, but overriding all settings via the link works somehow".

What can you do: Please use w.wiki/Tjf -- it overrides the filter by explicitly mentioning configuration parameters in the URL. •–• 08:57, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #2
Read this in another language • Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter



This issue of the Editing newsletter includes information the Talk pages project, an effort to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily.


 * Reply tool : This is available as a Beta Feature at the four partner wikis (Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian Wikipedias). The Beta Feature is called "".  The Beta Feature will get new features soon.  The new features include writing comments in a new visual editing mode and pinging other users by typing  . You can test the new features on the Beta Cluster now.  Some other wikis will have a chance to try the Beta Feature in the coming months.
 * New requirements for user signatures : Soon, users will not be able to save invalid custom signatures in Special:Preferences. This will reduce signature spoofing, prevent page corruption, and make new talk page tools more reliable.  Most editors will not be affected.
 * New discussion tool : The Editing team is beginning work on a simpler process for starting new discussions.   You can see the initial design on the project page.
 * Research on the use of talk pages : The Editing team worked with the Wikimedia research team to study how talk pages help editors improve articles.  We learned that new editors who use talk pages make more edits to the main namespace than new editors who don't use talk pages.

– Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Browser diff viewer
Hi -- this is something that and other reviewers may find helpful. Instant visual diffing in the browser. It may not look the best for you on the current screen -- but since it is under MIT license, customising it to our needs should not be a challenge. How you want to use it, I leave that up to you. •–• 11:54, 20 June 2020 (UTC)